With CS getting more mainstream day by day, the culture of hosting might also be changing. Christopher Culver raises this interesting issue on the hitchhiking forum on Couchsurfing. “Does anyone else get the impression that the CS hosting community is becoming less friendly to hitchhikers? I was shocked when two of the hosts I stayed with this summer expressed their disappoval of hitchhiking, considering it ‘freeloading’.”
Chris also puts forward the question: “what experiences have you had as the Couchsurfing hosting community is shifting from a bunch of freespirited wanderers to everyday people with strict schedules and expectations?” And subsequently he concludes: “It feels like we are being forced out of our own community.”
This might be a very valid point. Couchsurfing, Bewelcome or Hospitality Club for that matter, are these still the networks of travelers supporting fellow-travelers? There are still lots of great hosts and travelers around, but somehow - due to the popularity of the network - it is also becoming more and more a network of people that are just looking for entertainment, other people to ‘party’ and get drunk with. Further to that, it does not necessarily has to be a coincidence either that the news-wire of CS has been full with party-events in the past couple of months.
But then again - on the others hand - CS still provides you a pool of lots of different people, which means you just have to be selective in picking the right host. Or like Sanne says in the same forum, “I guess my conclusion is: it’s not bad that ‘normal’ people are hosting, it’s just different. I think it’s a good thing that couchsurfing is turning into a thing for everyone. And yes, that means that you do have to put some more effort in selecting the right host for you.”
Wow, a non CS bashing article on OCS that actually raises a valid point. I think hell just froze over
)
Anyways, I feel the same thing too. Good to see more people open up their homes to strangers, but it changes the dynamics of the network. We’ll probably see a lot more of this change in the next few years. The couchsurfing idea has of course been around for a long time but it has just only recently been opened up to a much bigger public. Interesting times… (then again, all times are interesting
Keep up the normal posts
I also think this is an interesting topic because it speaks to shared community values: who are we? It’s great to revisit this question as CS grows and changes. thanks to Christopher and Robino for bringing it up:)
I think that the desire to share travel stories, ideas and conversation with hosts and other wanderers over a meal, wine, comfy setting is almost nostalgic…speaking to a time when travel was more rare, difficult and risky….and, happily indeed, it still happens. Today however, the host is as likely to be as well-traveled as the guest and perhaps opened his/her door because of a desire to re-live those hitchhiking days…so, certainly: search for those hosts with whom you click (but please don’t condemn others for being forthright about their need for structure…simply don’t choose them). I just finished reading “Travels with Herodotus” by Polish journalist Ryszard Kapuscinski; he beautifully describes these types of experiences both in modern times and in antiquity. It is, of course, still possible to have adventures on the road…and nice to see that the restless free spirit has a long history:)
yet, someone has to pay for the food and wine…so those of us who enthusiastically host the wanderers gotta get some sleep and get up in the morning….and guess what? We also have interesting stories to share about our work experiences and lives…not just our hitchhiking days. The type of wanderer I want to avoid is not so much a “freeloader”… since I *want* travelers to accept my hospitality just as I have “freeloaded” on other hosts:)…but I want to avoid the guest who stereotypes me, thinking that, because I am a host in a more traditional life, that I am automatically dull (I very well may be dull…but my role as host isn’t necessarily causal…dull people are probably boring as travelers too:). I am also assuming that Christopher and others do not want to be stereotyped as parasites simply because they are hitchhikers…and can’t always get to a destination at an exact time. That’s quite fair. If people remain openly welcoming to each other as strangers, then courtesy travels both ways.
I would feel sad if my guest felt compelled to be charismatic and entertaining, telling a litany of stories while I listened (and then blow me off…as Christopher describes in the hitchhikers group post). Kind people from whom I can learn, and with whom I can share my life, are perfect.
It would seem like there is a tech fix to this dilemma. What has been wonderful about my brief interaction with the folx at Casa Robino is the feeling that i am hanging with other social revolutionaries. People who are interested in using tech tools and culture crafting to make things beyond their traveling experiences different and better. And this is certainly not where many of the couch surfers are coming from.
It would seem like there is need for the software to do another level of analysis of hosts and travelers. And it is nothing as simple as activists versus party-folx (i definitely consider myself part of both groups). There are lots of ways one could do this. One would be to look at existing SNs and see if you have friends of friends in the area you are going to. The other would be questionnaires about what a good and great hosting experience would look like to you. Then match traveler and host answers for compatibility.
The CS folx are to be complimented on finding a brilliant application for the internet. It is encouraging sharing and creating new relations. And it makes total sense that as the technology and culture mature, there are going to need to be enhancements needed to deal with the more diverse population using the technology.
Paxus at Casa Robino in Am*dam
23 Falling LEaves 2K8
how radical is it if you hang with people with whom you agree, and are compatible, with?
Sometimes radical projects, adventures, purposes come exactly from hanging out with people ‘with whom you agree, and are compatible, with’ . I bet CS is a perfect example of this.
you got me Alex…it’s a good point; thanks:)
I do, however, support breaking the social sequesterization (is that even a word?) that too easily happens…at least in my life…the gated-community aspect of interacting only with people with whom you share common social standing. I feel like I’m in the couples-with-kids social ghetto most of the time…and like hosting random folk thro couchsurfing. It’s either that…or hang out with my kids’ friends…which is totally not appreciated:)
Interesting discussion. As someone who’s been involved in people-to-people traveling for 35 years - long before CS existed, I have a few relevant points:
1) Travelers have no one to visit and no place to stay if there are no hosts. The true “free spirited wanderer” probably won’t be (or even have) a home when another one stops by to visit. So appreciate the stable hosts with spare bedrooms and well stocked refrigerators .
2) The idea that travelers only wants to stay with hosts who are like them — free spirited wanderers — seems to imply a lack of tolerance for the new and different. I suggest that the major benefit of CS/Servas/etc people-to-people traveling is to encounter broadly diverse new acquaintances and make unexpected friends. I was leery (at age 58) of hosting or staying with 20-somethings but every such experience I’ve had has been very rewarding — I venture to say in both directions.
3) I love travel more than anything but people who try to travel all the time aren’t likely to be contributing much to society. It’s hard to do when you don’t stay anywhere very long. Of course, there are exceptions, so there’s no need to point that out to me.
4) CS is a community of travelers but I define that word more broadly than the dictionary does. Travelers are those who value new situations, cross cultural contact, and an expansive non-parochial world view. You can be a traveler even when you’re not on the move. You could conceivably be a traveler without ever walking out your front door.
“Travelers have no one to visit and no place to stay if there are no hosts. The true ‘free spirited wanderer’ probably won’t be (or even have) a home when another one stops by to visit. So appreciate the stable hosts with spare bedrooms and well stocked refrigerators .”
The best hosts I’ve ever stayed with were full-time travelers who chose to return to their hometowns for a very short time to catch up with friends and family before setting off again on another long journey. I’d be willing to see 99% of hosts leave the network if the ones remaining were like those exemplary people. They change the lives of the guests they take in beyond measure.
Furthermore, I don’t think many travelers, especially hitchhikers, care about spare bedrooms and well-stocked refrigerators. Again, the best hosts I’ve stayed with offered floor space and a kitchen where you could prepare your own meals. No, what many travelers seek in the CS community is only a good vibe.
“The idea that travelers only wants to stay with hosts who are like them — free spirited wanderers — seems to imply a lack of tolerance for the new and different.”
Indeed, but I’d suggest the lack of tolerance is on the part of certain CS hosts, and not on the part of travelers. I love encountering locals, and more and more when I travel I stay at the homes of random locals I meet as much as I stay with CS hosts. As someone who travels mainly for language practice, getting to immerse myself in local society from time to time is essential. And most of the everyday people I stay with admire travel a lot, some of them even hoping to break into the scene themselves someday. It’s evidentally only a trend on Couchsurfing to neglect travel as lifestyle.
“I love travel more than anything but people who try to travel all the time aren’t likely to be contributing much to society.”
Traveling full-time requires an income that is most likely taxable. Many of the full-time travelers I know most definitely pay more in taxes than the average person in their home communities.
Margaret, thanks for your comments here. However, it’s no surprise that you write, “I feel like I’m in the couples-with-kids social ghetto most of the time.” No offense, but in the those great scenes from history like the Paris-Tangier axis and the Istanbul-Kathmandu trail, those eras that Couchsurfing at its best can emulate, there was no place for children. I get the impression that there was not much room even for stable relationships. Your demographic may win out in the end, because so many older people with families are signing up, but at the expense of many other active members who prefer an ambience in which everyone can participate equally.
Christopher, this is offending and ridiculous. While I don’t have a problem with being offending in general, I don’t like it if the offender doesn’t realize it. You seem to be stucked in a very narrowminded idea of truth. Although this may be a good basis for religious faith and similar bullshit, it’s not enough to understand the diversity of life and it even stops you from reflecting your own life(style). Demanding to believe your point of view (and excluding “99,9% of hosts”) isn’t exactly what I’d call “tolerance”.
Ok, you got me: I’m intolerant. You’re not welcome. (But don’t think this is a matter of hitchhiking.)
midsch, I respect the lifestyles of my hosts, though I think it’s pretty obvious that no longer will everyone be able to coexist inside the CS network. Meanwhile, you have vocal recent signups increasingly claiming that certain forms of travel are always wrong, in CS or out, and you’re calling me intolerant?
I didn’t say all hosts are a great example of tolerance. And I myself also don’t accept all requests or would ask every potential host for a couch. Some profile are indeed questionable. But that’s pointing fingers to other people.
Limiting a “true” network to 0,01% of hosts, denying the coexistence of difference is still not exactly what I’d call “tolerance”.
Furthermore it’s also limiting experience. And from my own experience small groups with a very strong mindset about life (here: travelling) tend to loose contact to the rest of society. This society is not necessarily good or something that hasn’t to be changed, but it will also not go away by simply ignoring it. Or trying to exclude it through closed networks.
There is a very easy solution Christopher. Plenty of free web space - why not set up your own site linking together only travellers who can host because they are in one place for more than a few days or are in between trips (though heaven knows how they will work and save if hosting unlimited surfers, partying with them 24/7 and also buying all surfers unlimited food and alcohol) and travellers wanting a place to stay, banning couples, anyone with children or anyone with full time working lifestyles committed to one area for most of the year. You come across as highly computer literate so it should not be a problem for you to do. Then it will only be your type of people and travellers can then just hang out with others like them and become a elitist closed society.
Problems is that there are likely to be fewer hosts - I think the success of hosting and surfing is because many members on CS are not on the road all of the time and can provide accommodation. If it becomes open only to members who are either travelling or will be in the near future, most hosts will disappear. Yes, there are bad apples among hosts and guests. However, the vast majority of hosts are generous, hospitable and willing to share what they have with somoene passing through. Even if they work full time and have lived in town for twenty years.
The even easier solution of course is instead of attacking vast numbers of genuine people for having ‘boring’ lives and rules in their own home and own space is simply to look at profiles carefully and chose people who have opted for alternative lifestyles - there are plenty around, people who are travelling themselves and can host, students etc.
“why not set up your own site linking together only travellers who can host because they are in one place for more than a few days or are in between trips”
There used to be this network. It was called Couchsurfing. Nearly every host I had until the middle of 2007 felt that traveling was the way to live, and their settlement in a flat was only temporary. There was an atmosphere of freespiritedness, endless possibilities and tolerance of lifestyles I, a fairly nerdy student at the time I joined, hardly knew even existed.
“…though heaven knows how they will work and save if hosting unlimited surfers, partying with them 24/7 and also buying all surfers unlimited food and alcohol”
What is it with people here suggesting that unlimited food and booze are demanded of hosts? While the host can successfully anchor the evening ambience by offering wine or coffee (or, for better or worse, hash), that’s all there really is to it.
Furthermore, the hosts I was thinking about don’t have to work and save much, because they established sources of income that would support them even without having a job to go to. That’s another reason why IMHO it is essential that they be the elite of the CS community, because not a small amount of people would like to follow their example if they only knew they could.
“The even easier solution of course is instead of attacking vast numbers of genuine people for having ‘boring’ lives and rules in their own home and own space is simply to look at profiles carefully and chose people who have opted for alternative lifestyles”
That’s hardly a solution, because certain vocal members have already called for people living those alternative lifestyles to be marginalized and to no longer have a role in community leadership instead of the respect, esteem and even adulation they long held. The community cannot stay together. A number of people have already left, instead just staying in hotels or asking locals directly for a couch (which is often easier than a couchsearch these days) and its really the community’s loss.
“be the elite of the CS community” - go get yourself a fancy elite-badge on your profile. If you succeed I’ll promise to state clearly at my profile that I’m not willing to host the selfproclaimed “elite” (and off course don’t ask them for a couch).
off and away for some narrowminded & intolerant travelling,
the unworthy
midsch
ha! so funny, unworthy Midsch:)
as for….”established sources of income that would support them even without having a job to go to.”….I gotta get me DAT
I don’t take as much part in CS anymore and i rarely look in here but I am glad I did today. I think this discussion is a great one (the original, not the argument that has spurned in it)
I must say some of the best hosts I had were people who could not travel, take for instance Ian in France, he his wife and son hosted me as well as two other surfers for Christmas ‘06 and it was the best Christmas I have ever had.
As Margeret said, boring people are boring, whether they be travellers or not. I do not see why contributing to society at large has anything to do with this discussion though. I have my own community and I don’t see how contributing to society needs a place in CS. What we need here are friendly people who want to meet other friendly people and have a good time with and learnd from each other.
I need to go find a Bengali course, my thoughts are scattered, i keep writing and deleting things. I just want to say this thread is great and everyone should come to Bangladesh, it’s one of the greatest places in the world. Ignore the hype of martial law and everything. This is a very artsy party town. Why don’t we ever hear about student movements here. They did a lot. I’ll stop going off topic, anyone who wants to mail, i’m on cs in bagladesh, find me and ill give you all the tips of here. Ok slap me now for the off topic thing.
slap (but a friendly slap)!
hi Spyro! so happy to see you:) I’m glad that you’re doing fine and loving Bangladesh. I never mind off-topic posting because that is how real conversations take place.
I am hosting the coolest girl ever…she has no home and is hitching around the US after having hitched all across Europe for months. She says she doesn’t think of herself as homeless, but rather as “home-full” thanks to CS…that she truly feels an extended family across the globe, of which I now am a part…what a compliment. Even though she is less than 1/2 my age and perhaps the most radically oppositely-situated, in terms of lifestyle, I’ve rarely met anyone with whom I feel so compatible so quickly. She was curious why I was happy in my current sedentary life, but not judging…or thinking of herself as cooler and me as a lame June Cleaver.
I think this is a nice example of how your circumstances (family, solo, married, single, straight, queer, male, female, bi-pedal, quadri=pedal, uni-pedal, anti-pedal…ok I’ll shut up) are irrelevant when personalities mesh.
My host just told me he wanted me to cook more at home and he would pay for it so that i would not run out of money and could stay here longer. That way we could still hang out and he gets to eat at home which is always better. CS is a funny old world.
Oh and in case you are wondering I refused to let him pay for all my food. I am goinna build his furniture though, as he recently moved in and I said I could totally build some cool stuff.
that’s awesome…sounds like you guys are a good match:)
my husband has built literally all of the wood furniture in our house over the past 17 years…come visit us! he has the best workshop.
“No offense, but in the those great scenes from history like the Paris-Tangier axis and the Istanbul-Kathmandu trail, those eras that Couchsurfing at its best can emulate, there was no place for children. I get the impression that there was not much room even for stable relationships. Your demographic may win out in the end, because so many older people with families are signing up, but at the expense of many other active members who prefer an ambience in which everyone can participate equally.”
i hardly ever come here, and even less reply…but i could not let this above comment pass…don’t anyone else see that its is contradictory? pretty much like everything is equal and okay and democratic and beautiful and lovely and peaceful as long as i don’t include you and you and you….yeah…terribly the vision of the freespirited world…
i resist a box…i have always resisted one..from the time i was a young girl in india who was told this is how you behave to now when you look at my life and say, hey you have a steady job and a kid so you are not ‘free spirited’…i am sorry you definition is so narrow that it does not include people like me…you only recognise the obvious signs of being free spirited…not the ones that are inside your head, which makes you a traveller no matter where you are and what you are doing…like margaret, i reject the social ghetto…even if i absolutely LOVE my work (and that is a concept often lost to people - that people can actually love the means by which they earn their living, and that often can provide a lot of the travelling which mark a ‘free spirit’..hell whoever said that all distances are just in phsyical kilometers? i find that definition narrow enough to not want it for myself….journeys happen inside your minds, travelling happens within your head…and if you have not got that, you would have been all over the world and never travelled…
and yes, the CS demographics is changing…and i find today that it is full of more ‘takers’…i don’t want to call them hitchhikers or anything…but their attitude is the CS is a way to travel cheaply…its the acco at the cheapest cost…that is worrying truly…
Freedom is in your mind
http://www.negrospirituals.com/news-song/get_away_jordan.htm
thanks Monolita:)
“i hardly ever come here, and even less reply…but i could not let this above comment pass…don’t anyone else see that its is contradictory? pretty much like everything is equal and okay and democratic and beautiful and lovely and peaceful as long as i don’t include you and you and you….yeah…terribly the vision of the freespirited world…”
No, Monolita, this is not contradictory. As long as people are adults, there is room for everyone. If I were hosting now, as I really long to do, I’d be happy to provide you a place to stay during your trip to Helsinki or Cluj. We may disagree about CS politics, but it is not a personal matter and my goal remains cramming as many guests as I can every night into a flat in the hopes of recreating some of the community feel that has changed my life so much on the road.
But if children are present, everyone immediately feels shackled.
My introduction to Couchsurfing came with the 2005/2006 Winter Camp in Riga, where I met many of the luminaries of the European hospex scene. The week was marked by an enormous amount of drinking, smoking and sex, but there was also room for people who weren’t into such activity. Everyone was tolerant and respectful. I’ve found this same atmosphere in plenty of hosts’ flats, where a wide range of lifestyles was represented.
Now imagine if children were brought. Parents would be screaming about the need to stop doing this or that, or stop talking about this or that. You would be forcing some of the most widely loved members of the site to limit their self-expression. Obviously such a community couldn’t flourish.
or we’d be screaming, “stay in your cage…and don’t bite those bars! I paid good money for those bars!”
Christopher: “If I were hosting now, as I really long to do …”
And if you were a pig with wings, you could be a real challenge to the aviation industry. Your giving remains theory, whilst your taking has been reality.
“Now imagine if children were brought … Obviously such a community couldn’t flourish.”
You already, in another discussion, didn’t understand the concept that people may not be able to continue their sex life in their bedroom, while they invite guests to share it.
Get help, Christopher Culver, you’re obviously a sociopath: You’re an autistic, passive-aggressive leech, with an attitude. And you have a potential to hurt people who are too kind to see through you. Cut it out.
“You already, in another discussion, didn’t understand the concept that people may not be able to continue their sex life in their bedroom, while they invite guests to share it.”
What are you banging on about?
“Get help, Christopher Culver, you’re obviously a sociopath: You’re an autistic, passive-aggressive leech, with an attitude.”
No, Norbert, I think I’m fairly representative of an older generation of Couchsurfers predating the arrival of losers like yourself. Lord knows I’ve heard the same complaints I’ve iterated here at plenty of CS gatherings and random encounters with once-active CSers. My problem is that I’m so used to frequenting Internet fora, while most of my peers are clued up enough to just get on and enjoy their lives without being drawn into a quagmire of getting hassled by people like yourself.
“Autistic”, is that some kind of Deutschglish slur? In English-language fora, one usually sees autism as a serious matter, a medically-diagnosed disability, and one doesn’t use the word to berate people one disagrees with.
Ah, you’re referring to the Beijing incident between Marian and whats-his-name. Let me tell you a little story.
Many years ago, when I was new to hospex, I stayed with a host in Kyiv. There was sex in the flat, in the very same room where I was staying, while I was in fact there sleeping. I, then someone with limited experience of the HC/CS community, was unhappy with this and mentioned it in my reference for the host.
I was thereupon contacted by a number of people, pretty much the entire Kyiv local group of the time, who make it clear that that was perfectly acceptable behavior that I must tolerate. Subsequent hospex experiences all over Eastern Europe have revealed similar attitudes.
I realized I was in the wrong, I revised my reference for the host, wrote her an apology, and since then have tried better to appreciate the strong contribution to the site her and her peers make to the site, light-years beyond yours in inspiring guests to vaster travels and creating an unforgettable ambience.
From what I can gather, Norbert, you’ve never been to a CS/HC camp. Nor have you been further east where a large amount of active hosts are members of the Rainbow community. Perhaps you’re in for a rude awakening.
hey there citizens! Greetings on an absolutely beautiful day here…just perfect:)
I think this thread has gotten off the chain a bit…let’s get back to community-shared values. Christopher, I think what people object to is, what appears to be, your superficial determination of who should be in the couchsurfing network and who shouldn’t….that people with families or mortgages wouldn’t be able to tolerate the free-spirited souls that shake off such levels of responsibility to kids and property…and you may be right in many cases…but how can anyone tell?
Those of us born in the 60’s with experience in college dorm rooms or European/Asian hostels understand the type of vibe you describe…we were enthusiastic participants of this life before you youngstas were pottytraining. big surprise: your generation didn’t invent the bong or blowjob….so we don’t care about public nudity or social sex:) My main issue about my kids being present for such stuff is them and their obnoxious behavior: all teenagers have a truly narrow definition of what they find cool…and they would be entertained beyond belief by dreadlocked hippies having sex. Seriously, no beach-going middle-aged man with a hairy back is beyond my daughter’s contempt. This is one reason why I’m grateful for the couchsurfing guests who stay with us: to show these snotty kids a potentially different definition of success, fun and happiness (that doesn’t involve Urban Outfitters).
I think that most people really are probably unfashionably dorky and uncool…I’ll speak for myself anyway. We had a great time with our last guest with whom we had a Crazy-8 smackdown…and, despite our devestating trash talk…she won! yes, she could have been socializing with the jaded and pierced in my city…but she chose to stay home with us on a Saturday night and play cards. how great is that?:)
Margaret, yes, it’s great that you think of yourself as tolerant of all types. But any community that allows people with very different values than the original founders and first wave of members will soon be dominated by people whose values are completely contrary to those of the original members.
You’re already seeing this in many places. Pickwick claims that certain people “travel too much” (I see on his positive reference list that he has friends who travel most of the time. Does he harrass them too?), even though the first wave of members were people who sought to travel as much as possible.
A recently-joined host who seeks to be super-active and respected in the community has come out strongly against backpackers, wanting the site to instead support only older people with suitcases.
On a site where the first generation of members were unaminously grateful for CS because it allowed seeing the world on a very small budget, you now have people claiming that free accomodation plays no role at all and they will only host people with budgets big enough for hotels.
I don’t know why this has come as a surprise to me, because almost every scene in history with an exclusive crowd of clued-up people has eventually come undone by outsides coming in and taking over. But I think it is proper to mourn somewhat when a beautiful thing is destroyed.
yeah but that’s my point Chris…you don’t need to mourn. There are still plenty of great connections to be made if you open up a bit to people who superficially seem to reside outside your acceptance-zone.
Don’t worry about those people who are righteously insisting on a narrow slice of traveler-type for themselves (ie: well-heeled and suitcased); alot of people love to be indignant…just ignore them, and seek out the people who, for you, jump off the page:)
Margaret, I can read profiles all the live-long day and try to find members I think are decent hosts or coffee-and-a-drinkers, but I’m still going to be disappointed by people who turn out to be hostile and cantankerous unless there is more of an emphasis on the values on which the site was founded. And when people will leave you bitter neutral references when the only issue was not making some kind of personal connection in spite of one’s efforts, that’s a risk I’m not happy to have to take.
That’s about the only connection I have with any “Open Couchsurfing” movement. Many here have complained about the Leadership Team not opening CS to a democratic administration or neglecting aspects of the site’s development. I’m unhappy that they are somewhat aloof and don’t advertise their own lifestyles more to say, “Look, this is what CS is all about and we need to keep it that way.”
“People are people, so why should it be, that you and I can get along so awfully.”
Depeche Mode
>>>>You would be forcing some of the most widely loved members of the site to limit their self-expression. Obviously such a community couldn’t flourish.<<<<
check out my CS profile and see who is the most widely loved CS member in my family. its my daughter. children make you feel shackled?…oh what a narrow opinion you have of a world and a community!…
do you even begin to imagine what a dreadful world it would be if not for children? or are you too lost to realise that?…
i feel sick when you try to teach me about CS…i was couchsurfing my way through India, europe and South east Asia before CS existed…my parents - the young people of the 60s that Margaret talks about taught me how to, by CSing themselves (travelling all over the world on people’s couches and they do that even now - in their 60s), and keeping their house open to all kinds of strangers my entire life as i grew up - surprise surprise to see hippies live in the hearts of people who have ‘regular lives’!…i travel with my daughter right now and wherever she has gone she has won hearts and opened doors for us…don’t underestimate the power of children to build a community…when you do, you are talking about communities which are not really real, and which are NOT inclusive…
i am sorry..this is such a superficial thread, with people in such ridiculously closed mindsets, that its just completely pointless…
hey fine people…keep the faith
yeah Chris…I understand you. That you grieve for the time when CS was smaller and more homogeneously comprised of travelers living on the fly…and yes, that must have been fun. But, like the old guard WASPs who finally had to admit black and/or Jewish people into country clubs, concepts of “us” break down when a nice thing is popularized.
It’s a true cliche: the only constant in the world is change…and you can either greet this with a positive outlook or be depressed for the rest of your life:)
You know, if we had only the travellers like me on this site we would have about five members here in Bangladesh and in a lot of parts of the world we would not have many of the great surfers. We in the “west” have the great opportunity to be able to travel because of the passports and incomes we have. Most of the couches in the subcontinent, if not a lot of other places in the world are with families. The whole idea of sharing a flat with other young people doesnt really happen, people live at home until they marry. So if we had this small yet at the time wonderful system of only travellers on here we would have a lot less paces to stay. I am very grateful for the families even if at times i prefer to stay in hotels and guest houses simply for the freedom a family cannot always allow.
“We in the “west” have the great opportunity to be able to travel because of the passports and incomes we have.”
Travel is not restricted to rich elites with good passports. Look at the Academy of Free Travel folks: Russian passports and budgets of two or three dollars a day, and they have traveled all over the world.
“So if we had this small yet at the time wonderful system of only travellers on here we would have a lot less paces to stay.”
Yes, there would be fewer CS experiences. But who cares? There’s plenty of other sources of lodging when traveling, many of which are easier than CS these days. But at least every CS experience would be almost guaranteed to be amazing, and there would no longer be that dreadful possibility of ending up at a host who seems cool on his profile and then turns out to be a dullard.
Gosh, Chris is awfully full of criteria of what makes a good couchsurfer for someone who has been accused of stealing from his hosts, as well as treating his hosts like a hotel, isn’t he? I guess everyone who doesn’t fit into his super-specific criteria for what makes a good couchsurfer (which strangely enough he himself falls into) should just leave couchsurfing altogether!
“I’m still going to be disappointed by people who turn out to be hostile and cantankerous”
Gee Chris, all these hosts you keep on meeting who turn out to be hostile and cantankerous. Did it ever occur to you that the common factor was you? That perhaps running into a free-loading, thieving, self-appointed arbiter on who does and does not deserve to be a part of Couchsurfing may be enough to make anyone hostile? I also like the fact that you spent three years freeloading off the Couchsurfing system, and only started hosting people in 2008 after numerous people pointed out what a hypocrite you were for expecting hosts to let you stay indefinitely whenever you wanted, but did not offer a place yourself.
“Gee Chris, all these hosts you keep on meeting who turn out to be hostile and cantankerous. Did it ever occur to you that the common factor was you?”
It’s not “all these hosts”, just a small minority, but one that is fairly annoying and which shows that the era of Couchsurfing as a community of like-minded individuals is over.
“I also like the fact that you spent three years freeloading off the Couchsurfing system, and only started hosting people in 2008 after numerous people pointed out what a hypocrite you were for expecting hosts to let you stay indefinitely whenever you wanted, but did not offer a place yourself.”
You’ve got your chronology very messed up. I began hosting on hospex in 2005 and early 2006. That I traveled most of the time in between then and early 2008 is fairly ordinary. And I started hosting in 2008 of my own decision, not because “numerous people” pointed anything out. In fact, my decision to stop traveling and return to Helsinki disappointed a lot of my close friends on CS.
And no, people on CS are not obliged to host. That fact was made very clear back in the era when I joined. And in fact, the most loved members I know rarely host themselves, because they now travel as lifestyle, and yet they have the adoration of everyone they meet. However, it used to be that people who decided to host actually supported the kind of atmosphere that supported extraordinary experiences. Guess what, a lot of people enjoyed having many, many guests at one time, keeping a constant atmosphere of festivities, and teaching CS newbies how to live more at extremes. Too bad they are now so hard to find among people that host but seem totally uninterested in the original spirit of Couchsurfing.
“I began hosting on hospex in 2005 and early 2006″ Ah, yes, all that imaginary hosting experience that you used to rely on, which has never been verifified. Didn’t you claim on one of the Couchsurfing forums that you had hosted scores of couchsurfers before 2008, but not a single one had left a reference for you? I think anyone who could be bothered to look up your profile can see the truth, that you simply freeloaded off the hospitality of real Couchsurfers for years and only started hosting in mid-2008. Let’s face it, your profile tells the real story - More then three years of leeching off the system (and god knows how many hosts have refused to leave you a reference based on your appalling behaviour as a guest) and less then four guests to show for it.
“People that host but seem totally uninterested in the original spirit of Couchsurfing” - So even if people give up their time and homes to host you, you still feel free to criticise them because they don’t fit into your arbitrary critieria of what makes a “cool” Couchsurfer? Spoken like a true adolescent! Let me guess, you feel that a host does not fall within the “true” Couchsurfing spirit if:
a. They complain about you stealing property from their homes
b. They are not able to host you on demand, because they *gasp* have lives of their own.
c. They object to you treating their homes like a hotel.
Strangely enough, you seem to think that sending abusive messages to an older woman for the “crime” of not being able to host you when you want to be hosted does fall within “cool” Couchsurfing behaviour, at least when you do it.
Look at the very bottom of my references list. In less than a month after joining CS, I hosted some people. I hosted several others through the spring, including one girl who came, made no conversation, slept, and left. That experience, which caused no inconvenience for me, made it obvious that hosts who complain about their guests not being social are just crotchety and cantankerous, failing to realize that guests don’t talk only when hosts fail to interest them. In 2005, I hosted others with other hospex sites. CS is not the only community around. I was also active in Pasporta Servo and in Veit’s wonderful site.
As for Kay’s reference, I was cheered on in writing it by the local CS group of Almaty when I was there. That community really knew how to have a good time.
Oh, it appears the dates changed after the CS crash in mid-2006. Well, my first guests were in spring 2006. As for this spring, I can leave references on the profiles of all the people I’ve hosted this spring if you doubt my numbers. It’s a bit annoying though. Most were just using CS to have a place to stay while visiting Helsinki with fellow Eramus students to have a good time, and never signed in afterwards, so they hardly need the references, and thinking of something besides just “I hosted them, they were fine” is always a bit of a challenge.
By the way Norbert, it must really suck to have wasted your life away and be trying to act like some kind of consultant to a travel site in your mid-50s. “I had to take care of my grandmother, so I couldn’t travel.” What rot. There are plenty of people, including some well-loved CSers, who travel full-time and support their entire families. If you were coming of age in West Germany in the early 1970s, the sky was the limit, I should think. Not everyone may be willing to follow their example, but they present a thought-provoking option.
“Oh, it appears the dates changed after the CS crash in mid-2006″
“I can leave references on the profiles of all the people I’ve hosted this spring if you doubt my numbers. It’s a bit annoying though. Most were just using CS to have a place to stay while visiting Helsinki with fellow Eramus students to have a good time, and never signed in afterwards, so they hardly need the references, and thinking of something besides just “I hosted them, they were fine” is always a bit of a challenge.”
Wow, you are just full of flimsy excuses for why you don’t have any references for any of your imaginary guests, now aren’t you? Since you seem to feel free to make up flimsy reasons for why you have a grand total of 4 references from people you have hosted from thin air, perhaps we can all do the same? Perhaps we should all just assume that Christopher Culver has a habit of sexually harassing all his couchsurfing guests, which explains why he has no references despite hosting thousands in his home? Wow, making up unsubstantiated facts to support your argumets is easier then it looks!
“As for Kay’s reference, I was cheered on in writing it by the local CS group of Almaty when I was there.”
Wow, what a vivid imagination you have! I am certain that the members of the Kazakhstan couchsurfing community would love to know that you are running around claiming that they all think that your harassment of an elderly couchsurfer for the crime of not hosting you constitutes a “good time”.
By the way, I also love that fact that you spent pages ranting on about how people with families should not be allowed near Couchsurfing because they may spoil YOUR enjoyment of your couchsurfing experiences, and then turn around and mock another couchsurfer for not being able to travel because he has to take care of an elderly relative. I think that, tied in with your designation of Pickwick as a loser who does not belong on CS despite the fact that he has hosted a hell of a lot more times in reality then you have, makes your genuine though process obvious to all. It is crystal clear that you think anyone who gives back to a community of helps out someone else is a loser. On the other hand, you obviously see yourself as a “winner” because you have leeched (and in at least one case stolen from) other couchsurfer for years without giving anything back.
Oh, and to go back to a previous statement you made, you claimed that only couchsurfers with ….”established sources of income that would support them even without having a job to go to.” should be considered amongst the elite, I assume you mean “getting money sent to me from my parents, even though I am old enough to get my own job by now”.
By the way Chris, I just had a look on Casey’s profile (as he is presumably the oldest member of Couchsurfing) and he still has friendship links dating back to 2004. You on the other hand have no friendship links from people you have hosted before mid-2008. You really should put a little more effort into your lies before putting them on a public forum. So should we assume that you lied about having hosted people before 2008, or should we assume that the people you hosted (if any in fact exist) had such a negative experience staying with you that they refused a friend link with you?
“You on the other hand have no friendship links from people you have hosted before mid-2008.”
False. I have a friendship link from Viktor Pal dating from March 2006. I hosted him and a friend of his back then, as his reference for me plainly states. There are another two references there at the bottom that plainly state that I hosted them. Not everyone who wrote references at the time went into the Personal Connections section that allowed one to specify hosted/surfed/traveled number of days, and so you don’t always get the respective icon, plus I don’t establish friendship links unless I’m sure I’ll have the opportunity to see the person again fairly frequently. So, you have to read the actual reference text. Are you illiterate?
“I think that, tied in with your designation of Pickwick as a loser who does not belong on CS despite the fact that he has hosted a hell of a lot more times in reality then you have, makes your genuine though process obvious to all.”
Maybe by now Norbert has hosted a few more people than me, but for a time I had him outnumbered simply because I welcomed larger groups into my flat. Hard to say someone is such a wonderful host when he’ll only take in one guest at a time (not even couples) in spite of the fact that you can fit a lot of bodies into even the smallest flat.
And I’ve talked with a couple of people whom Norbert has hosted. While they report him an affable host, neither of them reports staying with him a life-changing experience that opened their eyes to the possibilities of more frequent travel, exciting festivals, and extreme experiences. Meanwhile, nearly every single person I encountered in hospex in the beginning was either so inspiring, or at least expressed their admiration for those members and regretted they themselves couldn’t inspire. Norbert acts like his model for dull hosting is the right one. He’s claimed before that he’s only in CS “to exchange hospitality” and nothing more, I thought CS was about “changing the world one couch at a time”.
My only goal here is keeping the network focused on ideals so that people I care about and respect stop leaving the network because they are so bored by the hosts and local groups that they encounter when traveling now. I’m happy that I learnt from them so much, so more recent signups should get the same opportunity.
“you claimed that only couchsurfers with ….”established sources of income that would support them even without having a job to go to.” should be considered amongst the elite, I assume you mean “getting money sent to me from my parents, even though I am old enough to get my own job by now”.”
Not at all. As I just said, there are CSers who travel full-time and support their family. While their methods are not applicable or palatable to all, I daresay they should command the appreciation of most.
“And I’ve talked with a couple of people whom Norbert has hosted…”
“I welcomed larger groups into my flat”
And again with the completely unverified statements. I like how you expect people to completely ignore all the documented evidence of your leeching ways, but then make unfounded statements and expect everyone to taken them on faith. So any more evidence of the overwhelming support that you claim that you got from the Kazakhstan communuity for your harassment of an eldely female couchsurfer for not having a couch available when YOU wanted it? Or the hundreds of thousands of couchsurfers you claim to have hosted, none of whom have actually left a reference for you?
“Not at all. As I just said, there are CSers who travel full-time and support their family. While their methods are not applicable or palatable to all, I daresay they should command the appreciation of most.”
It worries me that you actually seem to believe this sentence makes any sense. So I take it you have no real justification for your vilification of a couchsurfer who has sacrificed to look after an elderly relative, aside from your own personal belief that anyone who actually gives back to a community or helps others is a “loser”.
“Are you illiterate?”
Wow, mocking someone else’s educational level because they may not have had the same opportunities that you had handed to you on a silver platter. Why am I not surprised that a couchsurfer who thinks that only people who share his self-centred views on how Couchsurfing should work feels justified in ridiculing anyone who does not come from the same priviledged background?
“My only goal here is keeping the network focused on ideals so that people I care about and respect stop leaving the network because they are so bored by the hosts and local groups that they encounter when traveling now. ”
Really? It seems that you are doing your level best to encourage people to leave by constantly harping on about how only people that you personally approve of deserve to be a member of Couchsurfing, as well as your more hands-on approach of stealing items from your hosts, and bullying elderly females for not giving into your demands for a couch.
“Norbert acts like his model for dull hosting is the right one.”
“I hosted several others through the spring, including one girl who came, made no conversation, slept, and left. That experience, which caused no inconvenience for me, made it obvious that hosts who complain about their guests not being social are just crotchety and cantankerous, failing to realize that guests don’t talk only when hosts fail to interest them.”
So if any of Norbet’s genuine (as opposed to imaginary ones like yours) guests find their visit dull, then it is his fault for not being an ideal host. But when a female guest feels so uncomfortable around you thar she avoids talking to you for the entirety of her stay wirh you, you somehow fail to comprehend that your whizz-bang theory of couchsurfing may not be of interest to everyone?
“I have a friendship link from Viktor Pal dating from March 2006. I hosted him and a friend of his back then”
Wow, one whole friendship link from 2006. Gee, that completely substantiates your claims of having hosted numerous couchsurfers during 2004 to now. Gee, you have at least four references from couchsurfers all describing your leeching, thieving, bullying behaviour as a guest. Should we now assume there are many more undocumented cases fo such behaviour on your part, or can we apply such spurious logic when it benefits you?
Oh, and to update a post on one of the numerous threads highlighting your freeloading nature:
Chistopher Culver, May 2008, in this thread:
“No limit to the number of guests (I will implement this when I return in the fall). Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine, provided for the guests each night *if* they wish it (ditto).”
“…when I return in the Fall I’m considering lodgings where even when I am away traveling, I can leave keys so that guests can let themselves in”
October 2008: “Back in Helsinki but … it may be some time before I’m established in a flat and can begin hosting again.”
http://www.couchsurfing.com/people/crculver
And in December 2008, and presumably 2009 and beyond: “No couch currently available for surfing.”
Hear that sound of your credibility flying out the window?
Poster “Truth”, rage all you want. My references are there for all to see, including the ones down at the bottom where people describe me as a host back in 2006. You can also see references I’ve left for other guests where they never reciprocated (mostly because they chose not to use CS much and stopped logging in). Two more guests I wanted to learn a reference for will unfortunately never get one (”This profile has been deleted”), but the site administration can clearly see from our correspondence that they surfed at my place.
And while you seem to think the unflattering references matter, they’ve made my friends just laugh (in fact, notice that the first references from Almaty are spoofs of one), and my CS friends have used much harsher language to describe some of those members than me. And why are you looking at friendship links? Are you one of those people who adds every person you meet as a friend, and therefore think that’s the only section that matter?
I don’t care so much about my “credibility”. CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win. And I think you all lose, because a campaign like yours based at this site is not going to make the Leadership Team listen. In fact, their silence to you should show that you clearly don’t have the vibe that Casey intended in mind.
And by the way, Kay was 49 when I left that reference. That’s hardly elderly. At the Riga HC/Couchsurfing Winter Camp where I was encouraged to sign up for Couchsurfing, there were people there in their 50s and 60s who could keep up just fine. Why does a 49 year-old need to be treated like some kind of protected caste?
Yeah, I thought I would be stuck in Helsinki again, so I thought about hosting. But that turned out not to be the case, so I traveled some more. You know, mobility, the activity that used to link everyone on CS together. My friendships with those dear to me depends mainly on whether I can travel anywhere near as much as they do, and if I stop traveling I lose their esteem, which is worth more to me than the opinion of a few people who take CS way too seriously.
“But when a female guest feels so uncomfortable around you thar she avoids talking to you for the entirety of her stay wirh you, you somehow fail to comprehend that your whizz-bang theory of couchsurfing may not be of interest to everyone?”
The entirety of her stay for something like 6 hours. She only came to my place to have a free place to stay, slept, briefly used the Internet, and left. For the handful of greetings we exchanged, she seemed happy with the accomodation. If I were to follow the recommendations of people who post in the CS forums, that would demand a negative reference, but I don’t see a problem.
“CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.”
Thank you for openly admitting your only interest in Couchsurfing! No mention of enlightening people, repaying people’s hospitality or making anyone else’s experience of travel any richer. Nope, just a simple “I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.” It is a shame you are not so open about your self-centred approach on your couchsurfing profile, but I guess that would make it a lot harder to find hosts to leech off (and steal from, and abuse …).
“Yeah, I thought I would be stuck in Helsinki again, so I thought about hosting. But that turned out not to be the case, so I traveled some more.”
Chistopher Culver, May 2008:
“…when I return in the Fall I’m considering lodgings where even when I am away traveling, I can leave keys so that guests can let themselves in”
I repeat, is that the sound of your credibility flying out the window?
As for your reliance on your whopping two references from 2006 (as opposed to the hundreds of imaginary guests that you have hosted), I think the couchsurfing community probably is more likely to base their opinions on threads such as these:
http://www.couchsurfing.com/group_read.html?gid=1075&post=1023217
“they’ve made my friends just laugh”
Are these the same imaginary Kazakhstan friends who supported your harassment of an elderly woman?
“My references are there for all to see, including the ones down at the bottom where people describe me as a host back in 2006.”
Yes, the whopping two references left in 2006, which shows that your claims of having hosted numerous couchsurfers to be a lie.
“You can also see references I’ve left for other guests where they never reciprocated”
And one can only imagine what an incredibly unpleasant experience being hosted by you was that they would refuse to leave you a reference.
“Two more guests I wanted to learn a reference for will unfortunately never get one (”This profile has been deleted”)”
See above. I can only imagine how unpleasant you must be in person to make people want to leave the Couchsurfing community altogether after being hosted by you. But hey, you still get a free place to stay so you win, right? And that is all that ever mattered to Mr Christoper Culver.
“Thank you for openly admitting your only interest in Couchsurfing! No mention of enlightening people, repaying people’s hospitality or making anyone else’s experience of travel any richer.”
As a student who can’t travel much more than half the year, and whose travel so far has mainly lacked the amazing experiences, attendance of festivals and trendy clubs, and living on the edge of my peers, it’s hard to see how I could enlighten any guests. Though I’ve made friends through CS and in some cases we are now very close, I’m sure they’d openly admit that I’m not very hip or with it. Let’s see, you could stay with a Russian hitchhiker and hear about smoking opium with mountain men in Tajikstan, or you could stay with a Hungarian hippie and hear him talk about walking barefoot across India for a year. Meanwhile, the majority of the conversation you’d get with me is etymologies.
I’d still like to host, if I’m forced to settle down somewhere. But that’s certainly not obligatory. Most of the hosts I’ve stayed with wish they could travel more, and they host travelers for their own self-interest of keeping their dreams alive. A very similar situation with hitchhiking, perhaps, where the drivers sometimes feel they get more from you than you get from them.
“And one can only imagine what an incredibly unpleasant experience being hosted by you was that they would refuse to leave you a reference.”
Right, as if most active members’ profiles didn’t have some unreciprocated references.
“Are these the same imaginary Kazakhstan friends who supported your harassment of an elderly woman?”
Again “elderly”. Do you live in a place where 49 year-olds are decripit and housebound? But if you don’t think from the references of Inanc, Abel and Luis that they were playing on other references, then you lack any sense of humour.
“See above. I can only imagine how unpleasant you must be in person to make people want to leave the Couchsurfing community altogether after being hosted by you.”
Someone deletes their profile because they got a negative reference from a subsequent host, and it’s somehow again my fault?
“Yes, the whopping two references left in 2006, which shows that your claims of having hosted numerous couchsurfers to be a lie.”
Three references, which involved altogether 5 guests. Not bad in the space of about about two months in a non-touristy part of town. Those were the only requests I got that spring, and I said yes to them all. Coming into Spring 2008, I had through Couchsurfing Andrew, Kris, Vaija, Vaija’s husband, two American academics, five Erasmus students, another three Erasmus students, a Romanian student and her brother, and a Peruvian hitchhiker. Through other hospex groups there was a French girl and two students from Mari El. All in about five weeks. That’s much higher activity than the average Helsinki host. And nowhere did I make angry pronouncements against “more than one (’me and my friend’ is more than one”), smokers, active travelers, or drug users. If I had, very few would have gotten my couch. So how again am I somehow less generous than people here on their high horses?
“I can only imagine how unpleasant you must be in person to make people want to leave the Couchsurfing community altogether after being hosted by you.”
If a person joins Couchsurfing just because they need a free place to stay at short notice, as several of my guests have, and they don’t travel so much to need it again soon, then it’s understandable they don’t become more active on the site. If you don’t want people to leave, then you need remarkable hosts who will inspire them to travel more and create an appropriate chillout vibe in their own flats if they settle somewhere. Some of the people I’ve met on CS can do that, and I think they should justly remain the elite. I, on the other hand, for my interest in hosting, am a fairly dull person, so why are you claiming I have a responsiblity to host again? And why do you fail to pay due hommage towards those hosts who do inspire people to travel more?
“CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.” - Christopher Culver, 2008.
I think I will start all my responses to you with this quote from you from now on, as it reveals with stark clarity your parasitical self-centred world view.
“I’d still like to host, if I’m forced to settle down somewhere. But that’s certainly not obligatory.”
“why are you claiming I have a responsiblity to host again?”
Your hypocrisy takes my breath away. So after badgering genuine hosts both on various forums, and in harassing e-mails, attempting to claim that all hosts should meet your ridiculous mandatory requirements including “No limit to the length of stay, No limit to the number of guests, Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” you turn around and wail about how you shouldn’t be made to feel like you should contribute yourself. So all other hosts have to meet your standards in order to facilitate your freeloading lifetyle, but you yourself do not? You have given everyone who reads this an invaluable insight into your sociopathic, passive-aggressive mind set.
I also like you how have shown you see nothing wrong with browbeating a woman almost twice your age and close to retirement age (50-55 is the standrd retirement age for women in China) for the crime of not hosting you when you demanded to be hosted. I also like you have completely failed to provide any evidence of this imaginary overwhelming support for your bullying behaviour within the Kazakhstan community. Of course, since you have still failed to respond to Adalia’s question of why Kay was wrong in giving you 18 days notice that she was not giving to your demands for a couch, but you see no problem with cancelling on a host the evening before (apart from your expected “It is so inconvenient when someone does it to me, but no inconvenience at all when I do it to others”) I am not going to hold my breath waiting for any response.
“Three references, which involved altogether 5 guests. Not bad in the space of about about two months”
But quite pathetic for a four year period, over which you freeloaded and stole from scores of hosts.
“Coming into Spring 2008, I had through Couchsurfing Andrew, Kris, Vaija, Vaija’s husband, two American academics, five Erasmus students, another three Erasmus students, a Romanian student and her brother, and a Peruvian hitchhiker. Through other hospex groups there was a French girl and two students from Mari El. All in about five weeks.”
Back to the imaginary, completely unverified guests? I am surprised you did not claim to host 10,000 refugees from the Grza Strip as well; such a claim would hold just as much weight. I do like the fact that you openly admit that your couch is only available for a few weeks every two years - Just enough to desperately stave off all the genuine hosts who point out the hypocrisy of your “every other host should be a super-host, but not me” bleatings.
Now why don’t you go back to mocking people who have not come from the same privildeged educational background as yourself as “illiterates”? Or harassing women twice your age with the backing of your imaginary friends?
“Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” you turn around and wail about how you shouldn’t be made to feel like you should contribute yourself.”
Not at all. As I said, I’d like to host when settled down. The point I raise, however, is that I won’t be making much of a contribution to the community when I cannot inspire guests like so many people I encountered in the beginning.
“I also like you how have shown you see nothing wrong with browbeating a woman almost twice your age and close to retirement age (50-55 is the standrd retirement age for women in China) for the crime of not hosting you when you demanded to be hosted.”
Actually Kay’s crime was not so much canceling at short notice as insulting typical Definitely hosts of the era.
“But quite pathetic for a four year period, over which you freeloaded and stole from scores of hosts.”
This statement may be considered libelous and I’d advise you to be careful. I have stolen from no one. With one host I had a mix up involving iPod headphones, you know, the ones that are manufactured by the millions and all look alike.
But back to hosting track records, there are CSers who have never hosted, or hosted but exceedingly rarely, because they have been traveling the entire time they were members of the site, with no plans to ever settle down really. And yet, they often have a long, long list of (what were once) Extremely Positive references, and the people who host them consider them remarkable indeed and continue to express their admiration of them long after they leave. While I, again, wish I were only half so charismatic, the existence of this class serves again to make me ask, why do you think hosting should be obligatory?
“Back to the imaginary, completely unverified guests?”
Except for the Romanians, who deleted their profile after getting a negative reference from a later host, there are CS references left for all of those I named above as being my CS guests. I consider that appropriate verification. The French girl left me a reference on her hospex site, and perhaps the people from Mari El will also leave a reference (though they have no English, just Russian and Mari).
Anyway, “Truth”, if you want to attack my contributions to the site, let me ask you, what have *you* done to inspire your guests? How many guests have decided to attempt traveling full-time because of an example you provided? How many guests have started attending Burning Man or Rainbow Gatherings because of your stories? How many guests discovered appropriate music because of what you had playing in your flat the party of the night that they arrived? If you have done none of those things, then your impact on the lives of people surfing couches doesn’t amount to much more than mine.
As always, the statement that defines Mr Christopher Culver’s parasitical, leeching attitude to couchsurfing and life:
“CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.” - Christopher Culver, 2008.
“Anyway, “Truth”, if you want to attack my contributions to the site, let me ask you, what have *you* done to inspire your guests? How many … (pretentious rambling deleted for sake of brevity)”
Well, I could adopt your tactics and claim legions of imaginary guests that I inspired, but that would make me the same dishonest liar you have revealed yourself to be.
Besides which, Chris, you are the only person who needs to defend his contribution to the site, because you are the only person running around on multiple forums attempting to shame any other hosts if they do not meet his ridiculous, self-arbited standards of what makes a good host. Most of the grownups who populate CS realise that hosts are entitled to contribute in their own way, and do not attempt to impose their own standards on the,. On the other hand, you wail about any hosts who refuse to accept such rules as “no limit to the length of stay, No limit to the number of guests, Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” but plainly fail to meet any standard of hosting yourself.
“I’d like to host when settled down”
“when I return in the Fall I’m considering lodgings where even when I am away traveling, I can leave keys so that guests can let themselves in”
“No couch currently available for surfing.”
You obviously don’t mind revealing yourself as a liar in public, do you?
“Kay’s crime was not so much canceling at short notice as insulting typical Definitely hosts of the era.”
Hmm, yet the only person who has stated by her actions is you. On the other hand, numerous people have stated that they find your freeloading, sanctimonious, leeching actions insulting, yet you seem ok with that. I suppose if it gives you an excuse to feel superior by harassing and belittling a woman twice your age who is close to retirement …
“But quite pathetic for a four year period, over which you freeloaded and stole from scores of hosts.”
This statement may be considered libelous and I’d advise you to be careful. I have stolen from no one. With one host I had a mix up involving iPod headphones, you know, the ones that are manufactured by the millions and all look alike.
But back to hosting track records, there are CSers who have never hosted, or hosted but exceedingly rarely, because they have been traveling the entire time they were members of the site, with no plans to ever settle down really. And yet, they often have a long, long list of (what were once) Extremely Positive references, and the people who host them consider them remarkable indeed and continue to express their admiration of them long after they leave. While I, again, wish I were only half so charismatic, the existence of this class serves again to make me ask, why do you think hosting should be obligatory?
58 CRCulver
December 29, 2008 at 8:48 am
“Back to the imaginary, completely unverified guests?”
Except for the Romanians, who deleted their profile after getting a negative reference from a later host, there are CS references left for all of those I named above as being my CS guests. I consider that appropriate verification. The French girl left me a reference on her hospex site, and perhaps the people from Mari El will also leave a reference (though they have no English, just Russian and Mari).
59 CRCulver
December 29, 2008 at 8:57 am
Anyway, “Truth”, if you want to attack my contributions to the site, let me ask you, what have *you* done to inspire your guests? How many guests have decided to attempt traveling full-time because of an example you provided? How many guests have started attending Burning Man or Rainbow Gatherings because of your stories? How many guests discovered appropriate music because of what you had playing in your flat the party of the night that they arrived? If you have done none of those things, then your impact on the lives of people surfing couches doesn’t amount to much more than mine.
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Welcome back Truth (Change)
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As always, the statement that defines Mr Christopher Culver’s parasitical, leeching attitude to couchsurfing and life:
“CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.” - Christopher Culver, 2008.
“Anyway, “Truth”, if you want to attack my contributions to the site, let me ask you, what have *you* done to inspire your guests? How many … (pretentious rambling deleted for sake of brevity)”
Well, I could adopt your tactics and claim legions of imaginary guests that I inspired, but that would make me the same dishonest liar you have revealed yourself to be.
Besides which, Chris, you are the only person who needs to defend his contribution to the site, because you are the only person running around on multiple forums attempting to shame any other hosts if they do not meet his ridiculous, self-arbited standards of what makes a good host. Most of the grownups who populate CS realise that hosts are entitled to contribute in their own way, and do not attempt to impose their own standards on the,. On the other hand, you wail about any hosts who refuse to accept such rules as “no limit to the length of stay, No limit to the number of guests, Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” but plainly fail to meet any standard of hosting yourself.
“I’d like to host when settled down”
“when I return in the Fall I’m considering lodgings where even when I am away traveling, I can leave keys so that guests can let themselves in”
“No couch currently available for surfing.”
You obviously don’t mind revealing yourself as a liar in public, do you?
“Kay’s crime was not so much canceling at short notice as insulting typical Definitely hosts of the era.”
Hmm, yet the only person who has stated by her actions is you. On the other hand, numerous people have stated that they find your freeloading, sanctimonious, leeching actions insulting, yet you seem ok with that. I suppose if it gives you an excuse to feel superior by harassing and belittling a woman twice your age who is close to retirement …
“But quite pathetic for a four year period, over which you freeloaded and stole from scores of hosts.”
This statement may be considered libelous and I’d advise you to be careful. I have stolen from no one. With one host I had a mix up involving iPod headphones, you know, the ones that are manufactured by the millions and all look alike.
But back to hosting track records, there are CSers who have never hosted, or hosted but exceedingly rarely, because they have been traveling the entire time they were members of the site, with no plans to ever settle down really. And yet, they often have a long, long list of (what were once) Extremely Positive references, and the people who host them consider them remarkable indeed and continue to express their admiration of them long after they leave. While I, again, wish I were only half so charismatic, the existence of this class serves again to make me ask, why do you think hosting should be obligatory?
58 CRCulver
December 29, 2008 at 8:48 am
“Back to the imaginary, completely unverified guests?”
Except for the Romanians, who deleted their profile after getting a negative reference from a later host, there are CS references left for all of those I named above as being my CS guests. I consider that appropriate verification. The French girl left me a reference on her hospex site, and perhaps the people from Mari El will also leave a reference (though they have no English, just Russian and Mari).
59 CRCulver
December 29, 2008 at 8:57 am
Anyway, “Truth”, if you want to attack my contributions to the site, let me ask you, what have *you* done to inspire your guests? How many guests have decided to attempt traveling full-time because of an example you provided? How many guests have started attending Burning Man or Rainbow Gatherings because of your stories? How many guests discovered appropriate music because of what you had playing in your flat the party of the night that they arrived? If you have done none of those things, then your impact on the lives of people surfing couches doesn’t amount to much more than mine.
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Welcome back Truth (Change)
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As always, the statement that defines Mr Christopher Culver’s parasitical, leeching attitude to couchsurfing and life:
“CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.” - Christopher Culver, 2008.
“Anyway, “Truth”, if you want to attack my contributions to the site, let me ask you, what have *you* done to inspire your guests? How many … (pretentious rambling deleted for sake of brevity)”
Well, I could adopt your tactics and claim legions of imaginary guests that I inspired, but that would make me the same dishonest liar you have revealed yourself to be.
Besides which, Chris, you are the only person who needs to defend his contribution to the site, because you are the only person running around on multiple forums attempting to shame any other hosts if they do not meet his ridiculous, self-arbited standards of what makes a good host. Most of the grownups who populate CS realise that hosts are entitled to contribute in their own way, and do not attempt to impose their own standards on the,. On the other hand, you wail about any hosts who refuse to accept such rules as “no limit to the length of stay, No limit to the number of guests, Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” but plainly fail to meet any standard of hosting yourself.
“I’d like to host when settled down”
“when I return in the Fall I’m considering lodgings where even when I am away traveling, I can leave keys so that guests can let themselves in”
“No couch currently available for surfing.”
You obviously don’t mind revealing yourself as a liar in public, do you?
“Kay’s crime was not so much canceling at short notice as insulting typical Definitely hosts of the era.”
Hmm, yet the only person who has stated by her actions is you. On the other hand, numerous people have stated that they find your freeloading, sanctimonious, leeching actions insulting, yet you seem ok with that. I suppose if it gives you an excuse to feel superior by harassing and belittling a woman twice your age who is close to retirement …
As always, the statement that defines Mr Christopher Culver’s parasitical, leeching attitude to couchsurfing and life:
“CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.” - Christopher Culver, 2008.
“Anyway, “Truth”, if you want to attack my contributions to the site, let me ask you, what have *you* done to inspire your guests? How many … (pretentious rambling deleted for sake of brevity)”
Well, I could adopt your tactics and claim legions of imaginary guests that I inspired, but that would make me the same dishonest liar you have revealed yourself to be.
Besides which, Chris, you are the only person who needs to defend his contribution to the site, because you are the only person running around on multiple forums attempting to shame any other hosts if they do not meet his ridiculous, self-arbited standards of what makes a good host. Most of the grownups who populate CS realise that hosts are entitled to contribute in their own way, and do not attempt to impose their own standards on the,. On the other hand, you wail about any hosts who refuse to accept such rules as “no limit to the length of stay, No limit to the number of guests, Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” but plainly fail to meet any standard of hosting yourself.
“I’d like to host when settled down”
“when I return in the Fall I’m considering lodgings where even when I am away traveling, I can leave keys so that guests can let themselves in”
“No couch currently available for surfing.”
You obviously don’t mind revealing yourself as a liar in public, do you?
“Kay’s crime was not so much canceling at short notice as insulting typical Definitely hosts of the era.”
Hmm, yet the only person who has stated by her actions is you. On the other hand, numerous people have stated that they find your freeloading, sanctimonious, leeching actions insulting, yet you seem ok with that. I suppose if it gives you an excuse to feel superior by harassing and belittling a woman twice your age who is close to retirement …
“But quite pathetic for a four year period, over which you freeloaded and stole from scores of hosts.”
“This statement may be considered libelous”
Really, you don’t think that hosting for a few weeks while leeching off the goodwill of others is pathetic? Surprising given your documented “Hosts should host everyone who asks all the time for an indefinite period (except for me)” position.
“I’d advise you to be careful.”
Why? Obtaining actual damages in libel requires evidence of damage to reputation, and loss occuring as a result. The scores of comments about you throughout Couchsurfing would show that it would be impossible for your reputation to be tarnished any more then it has by your own statements and actions.
“With one host I had a mix up involving iPod headphones …”
Where somehow your host’s property ended up in your bag?
“While I, again, wish I were only half so charismatic, the existence of this class serves again to make me ask, why do you think hosting should be obligatory?”
It again worried me that you think this argument makes any sense. Do your mummy and daddy realise how much money they are wasting on supporting you on your little extended “educational” holiday in Europe?
Truth, you seem to be writing from some other dimension. Most of the people I’ve encountered through Couchsurfing, hosts, guests, and random meetings alike, think travel is wonderful, and the longer one can hold out doing it, the better. The argument “don’t travel because you have to host” is ridiculous. If this viewpoint, which is so prevalent, is not represented much in the CS forums, it is clearly because the forums are dominated by a relative handful of people with very different ideas about CS than the norm, and obviously people who live for travel rarely participate in Internet communicaties (with the exception of Internet addicts like myself).
Besides my own friends on CS, I can look to the Riga Winter Camp, where the 400 participants made it clear that CS is about travel with loud rambunctious, and for better or worse boozing, smoking, and sex. And I can look as well at the powerful example the Leadership Team provide. The purpose of CS is set by them, not by a handful of people on the forums complaining about young people these days.
When I watch people I respect leave the network because they increasingly find the hosts they encounter while traveling boring or tiresome, obviously I should be concerned. The CS community is gravely weakened by their departure, because they change their guests’ lives completely when they are somewhere hosting, even if that might only be once in a great while. You need them more than they need you, so you might want to start thinking about ensuring retention.
As for bandying about words like “freeloading”, you’ve got the wrong guy. Except for a place to sleep and a decent atmosphere, I don’t expect much from my hosts. I prefer they don’t cook for me, because I eat very little and normally can’t clear a plate like they’d want. While I suggest a bottle of wine or some exotic coffee, that’s only from witnessing over the year that the hosts who inspired almost slavish devotion in their guests had such customs.
You’ve got for example a nomadic ambassador who demands all meals from his hosts, ciggies from the shop, and even occasional garment repair. He gets nothing but gushing positive references because people admire his freespirited wandering (as one other ambassador recently wrote (”if people like them didn’t exist, we’d be forced to invent them”), but if you really want to rage against “freeloading”, there’s plenty of such people to go attack instead.
Against better knowledge I still get the feed from here, so I at least scan messages, but dropping everything from Christopher (and most replies) to the trash in a second … anyway this sentence caught my eyes and made me laught out loud:
Midsch,
“And I can look as well at the powerful example the Leadership Team provide.”
Yeah, that made me laugh as well. I think it is pathetically obvious that whenever Chris Culver, self-proclaimed genius, is challenged by someone who is not a woman old enough to be his mother, he pathetically begs for backup from others, whether it be from the CS Leadership Team or his imaginary Kazakhstan friends. I guess Chris only feels up to standing on his own feet when he is bullying a woman from China close to retirement age.
To bring, the one statement that defines Mr Christopher Culver’s parasitical, leeching attitude to couchsurfing and life:
“CS served me well for a while, but nowadays I’m trying to learn more from the Academy of Free Travel about how to see the world. I still get a place to stay everywhere I go, through Couchsurfing or not, so I win.” - Christopher Culver, 2008.
“The argument “don’t travel because you have to host” is ridiculous.”
Nice Straw Man argument, Chris! I guess you can’t defend your own hypocritical position so now you are now fabricating arguments that you do have a chance of winning. Nowhere did I state that Couchsurfers should not travel because they have to host. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of you demanding that every other host meet such onerous standards as ““No limit to the length of stay, No limit to the number of guests, Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” when you yourself has shown yourself to only host when it is at your convenience i.e A handful times in 2006 when you first began to freeload off CS and needed positive references to increase your chances, and again in 2008 when your reputation for thieving and freeloading became so widespread that you had to host for a scant few weeks in order to sucker people into hosting you again.
“When I watch people I respect leave the network because they increasingly find the hosts they encounter while traveling boring or tiresome”
Yet, surprisingly there is no evidence of any wave of couchsurfing departures. In fact, Couchsurfing has grown to 800,000+ by now. On the other hand, there is direct evidence that quite a few couchsurfers elected to delete their profiles after being “hosted” by you. It is also quite obvious that your manipulative rantings about how all other hosts should meet such standards as “No limit to the length of stay, No limit to the number of guests, Some entertainment, e.g. good music and a bottle of wine” would be an obvious deterrant to others thinking of hosting until they realise that all this ranting is simply a self-centred exercise designed to manipulate others into supporting your freeloading lifestyle while not contributing anything back to CS.
“As for bandying about words like “freeloading”, you’ve got the wrong guy. ”
Hmmm, let’s take a sample of comments from people who have hosted you:
“I have felt my home to be kind of a hotel for Chris…”
“For people like Chris, it’s a way to have free overnight accommodation.”
“But Christopher wrote to me: “Personally, when I see ‘Definitely’ in search results, I imagine someone like some of those legendary CS hosts I’ve had the pleasure of staying with, who have large flats that they’ve turned into CS centres for many guests at a time, meaning that there’d never be a reason for them to turn down a guest.” In other words a hostel…WRONG
“we had a small problem with him. A pair of iPod headphones went missing from my home.”
I think people can judge from themselves who is a freeloader, now Chris?
“there’s plenty of such people to go attack instead”
Thank you being so honest about your passive-aggresive “everyone is picking on me!” view on life. You seem to think that you are somehow targeted because other couchsurfers are more “charismatic” then you. It seems to have completely escaped your attention that while others may not be able to host as much as they are hosted, they also do not attempt to prescribe ridiculous standards of hosting that they themselves fail to meet in a cynical attempt to facilitate their freeloading ways. Nor do they run around berating women almost twice their age for not providing them with a couch while providing them three weeks notice, when they themselves have a history of cancelling with less then 24 hours notice. They also do not have a history of being discovered with their host’s property “accidentally” in their bags.