I am a happy and proud CSer, and have no illusions that everything is run perfectly or completely transparently.. but then… why the hell should it? CS works without it, and the $20 or so I paid has gone to the maintenance of a great idea. If that idea included remuneration for its dedicated staff — who the hell cares? I’m glad people reap the rewards from their work. We give money to corporations and NGOs all the time… we pay for services from non-profit orgs… and some of the money spent for those services goes to pay the people who run it…. or does OCS think maintaining a site over a million users just pays for the bandwidth by goodwill from the Internet Gods?

If you actually have documents, show them to me, I’m a legal professional. michael “cee” “jay” “en” “em” at gmail.com

The you are fired letter by chris (acting as a proxy for casey)

Also the lies keep continuing . Couchsurfing keeps haemorrhaging with casey and his buddies spending the profits on their own private party (which is called a collective).This money could have been used to make couchsurfing better by having permanent centres all over the world but….

Do you really understand the purpose of ocs?
It ocs is not a competitor of couch surfing.

What is “the full experience of what it actually is to be a CouchSurfer”? Does it by any chance involve a mix of illicit substances?

I hope you continue to enjoy CouchSurfing. It’s sad that so many people here get caught up in this OCS bullshit and limit themselves from the full experience of what it actually is to be a CouchSurfer.

Caseys friends (casey does not care) tries very hard to hide the faults .There is a PR team which spreads disinformation.

This site gets people coming here and they are angry to see the truth. Truth hurts. They will defend the untruths till after a year they slowly realize humm there was some things on ocs which were true. Truth takes times to be realised.

Those who never want to change or see the truth will never change . But i know and see every days people who care about couchsurfing coming here and reading and then thinking……….

Rachel: We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We do not take turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
Casey: But all the decision of collective do not have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting.
Matthew:But by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,

Modified from Application of the Critical Theory http://www127.pair.com/critical/food.htm

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions. People like that are time sinks — they take without giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting and another person more worthy of an answer. We call people like this “losers” (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it “lusers”).

On the other hand, you will occasionally run across rudeness and posturing that is quite gratuitous. The flip-side of the above is that it is acceptable form to slam real offenders quite hard, dissecting their misbehavior with a sharp verbal scalpel.

push cx
push dx
jae exit_traverse

About the “privacy”: To be fair (and reasonable) I think the majority of people that post here don’t care what you do in your private time. I declined translating your public blog because of this reason (Dutch is my mother tongue). I’m sure there’s a comment that reflects that. But don’t come blaming everyone here collectively because somebody does read what you put online. I find it unfortunate that references are being made here to your love life, but you did put it out there yourself (which I find equally weird).

I do make assumptions and am not objective about CS. Where do you get the idea that OCS is about being objective? It is a political channel, not a news service! However, since CS’s communication is so abysmal, even our non-objective assumptions have more real content in them than what CS puts out.

And please, for the love of sanity, stop with the “OCS is trying to destroy CS, run away!” stuff. It’s simply ridiculous.

I’m sure we’d be happy to implement any procedure they create in Thailand…would be appropriate for inclusion.

Margaret could you clarify what you meant by the above statement?

Also are you a moderator of some communications group?

I get the general feeling that the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing on Cs

I think most of the key people are living in the same house in Thailand right now! But I can believe they don’t know what each other are doing.

I get the general feeling that the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing on Cs…because many knowledgeable people have gone and many new members are in leadership positions. Perhaps it takes time to get these people up to speed. Example: the Events/Outreach group states that you must be an amb to join…yet none of the group members are ambassadors. They are all new to Cs. This looks quite amateurish to me…and an easy target to criticize. Maybe this same type of thing is duplicated across the site…and the people in charge want to get their ducks in row before going live. (she says optimistically…)

Incidentally, a friend in Scotland is moving and house hunting, and I saw an ad with the description “well presented”, which is real estate English for “there’s nothing else good we could say about this house”. ;-P

As I said before, to communicate is the ONE thing you can do immediately in a bad situation. The only thing that takes time is “not communicating” by filtering and deciding what you say and what you hide. And that is exactly what is happening.

I understand that Mandie is working hard to get communication issues resolved…

Online communication is not hard. Setup a WordPress.com blog, write content. It really is that simple. We’re constantly given the excuse “it’s being worked on”. Quite frankly, I think that’s a crock of shit. Any honest communication at all would be better than the marketyspeakety garbage that we are fed in the newsletters.

thanks for the compliment.

I think it’s best to assume that people are generally reasonable…and you can ask for clarity if you don’t understand their actions….rather than the other way around (ie: assuming they’re morons and looking for actions that support this negative view). this site does generate some vivid fighting…don’t get your feelings hurt since we all get hit with the mud now and then…just read it for entertainment.

as for the site’s lack of objectivity, most situations on the web and in real life are not objective. Everyone is trying to sell their viewpoint…they are either successful or not…but I don’t meet many (any?) truly objective people. Best to not expect objectivity from this site or anywhere.

Pickwick makes a good point: it doesn’t help Casey or CouchSurfing for their supporters to be in mutual perpetual agreement…since communities fail when the leadership becomes too insular. It’s easy to ignore critics as a way to buy time in problem-solving…but creativity will generate tension…good tension…but tension, all the same. Best to not evade that by tar/feathering all critics. Confront problems and get the work done.

the comraderie (sp?) and productive atmosphere that you are now experiencing in Thailand is unfortunately not duplicated for many of the general users. One amb describes this site as “coughing blood” in a recent thread…meaning, that the unaddressed problems are coming due. It would be wonderful of you to report what progress is being made…and I’m certain there is real progress and work being done! since we get very little news on CS. I understand that Mandie is working hard to get communication issues resolved…and we thank her for that.
hope you all are having fun…good week all

By discussing what you published online? Are you for real?

Doogy: “weapons of mass destruction”

[sigh]

Doogy: “… every … negative … never … Nobody … always … negative … Nobody … every … destroying …”

Good thing you don’t generalise.

You’re such a prime example of content free spitefulness that has replaced meaningful communication from the crowd around Casey! When was the last time you actually SAID something here? People like you are Casey’s worst enemies.

I took it serious because you guys where invading my privacy.

Quotes on Internet Privacy
” On the Internet, Nobody Knows You’re a Dog.”
- Peter Steiner, in the New Yorker

We will dress up as normal travellers and visit the unsuspecting opencs members to slice their throat(and fuck their airhole) at night or at least beat some serious sense into them. Death or sense for the non believers! Yaaayayayayaaaaah

You sound like a serial killa lol .Serious gangbanging

Nobody cares here about the objectivity of anything that is posted.

Nobody cares here about the objectivity of anything that is posted. Opencouchsurfing is one vague assumption after the other.
I took it serious because you guys where invading my privacy. Its like you guys are at war with couchsurfing and use every mean possible to bring it down. With gossip and assumptions as main weapons of mass destruction. You guys are “the cult” thinking all of this is for a noble cause but you are only destroying what one day you loved so much.

@Margaret, I think you are the only reasonable person here. Keep up the good work.

@DavidK. Hey man, thank you, you make me almost feel like a celebrity. Its the first time I read gossip about myself on the internet and its coming from a complete stranger who never met me. Does your source of information also tells you if the orgie was any good?

we don’t care what you’re doing as long as donated money is spent responsibly and the work gets done…show evidence of those 2 things and we’re happy. Good day all

But I guess it doesn’t matter. It looks like you drank the Kool-Aid.

How do you suppose a member of a cult would respond if you asked them “are you a member of a cult”. My guess is they’d ridicule your suggestion.

Anyway, as your trustful and only source of information here at the collective I can tell you the following classified information:

Every morning before we go to work we all do a little firedance around our main servers (with Casey sitting on top of them with all the girls licking his feet, of course). We do this because we like it and not because he orders us too. We didn’t really realise that smoke and servers don’t mix well together and thats why the site is down all the time. Also all the orgies on the database server cause serious slowdowns and lots of loss of information. Oooops

And another thing: Yes we ARE the chosen ones and we cary CS and Casey in our heart, mind, body and soul. We will dress up as normal travellers and visit the unsuspecting opencs members to slice their throat(and fuck their airhole) at night or at least beat some serious sense into them. Death or sense for the non believers! Yaaayayayayaaaaah

ps: We also do the awsome bananadance everytime the site goes down. FUN!

I object against this thread because it stirs up all kind of pointless dispute between inherently subjective opinions, and thereby obscures the more or less objective facts that we have business being concerned about (i.e., the accountability of Casey and pals for collective expenses). I welcome you to carry on this discussion with me on the mailing list or personally (I don’t think in fact that our opinions are very far apart), but this is all I will say about it in this thread.

We don’t need to quarrel with Casey or his henchmen about what they do or do not want to divulge. We can leave that to the NH district attorney who can beat ‘em over the head with the NH statute. How’s your contact with their office these days, Pickwick?

6. Nothing but the truth (media blackout)

Here’s another point:

7. You’re in OR out
Everyone who isn’t part of the collective/in-group, can’t participate because he/she “don’t know”. Due to the fact that there is nothing reported to the outside world, the outsiders will never know … and even if you’re are an insider you can’t be (too) critical, because this is a) considered as “violence” and b) will bann you by slowly draining your resources/access rights*. It’s not even possible to leave in “good” after volunteering for a while as this is considered as inappropriate critic or betrayal on the “true spirit”. Or does anyone know any “honored former volunteer”?

Possible solutions:
Communication, communication and you know what? Yes, communication. Not marketing bloats or esotheric concepts of non-communicational violence, no communication.

Of course in a way this is all childish. But I still learn to be more sure about things I don’t want.

midsch

*The “you’re fired”-mails to some volunteers are an exception and an obvious failure in practicing “non-violent communication”. If I remember right, these mails (and the the famous naz-war) where labeled as “culture of appreciation” …

In general, I think we should stay clear of the “do not give them ammo” line of reasoning. You seem to agree with me that there are troubling cult characteristics and I believe we have never stopped anyone on OCS from stating such observations. I know how intimidating some topics are (I hesitated quite a bit concerning the call for Casey’s resignation for instance, even though – deep down – I agreed with it), but isn’t this site about doing something brave for once and standing up to the continuous social pressure you feel as well? I mean, that’s amazing right: We sometimes self-censor for fear of public backlash, even when we’re stating obvious truths. And, let’s not forget one of the principal inspirations of this site:

The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. (from “Letters from Birmingham” by MLK)

As much as it flies directly in the face of some conventional wisdom (and NVC), tension is exactly what we need here. You are right that change will come eventually, but I don’t mind speeding up the process.

Do you know why there are no new photos from the collective?

And why dogie/Dougie was so scared to post names of people at the collective (coached by ttt and jim stone to keep quiet) ?

I agree with Niels: I couldn’t care less how they do it (naked Lucifer-dancing or whatever) if collectives prove to be a good value for the money spent. I think Zak has made this point repeatedly: that good times in a work setting should serve one purpose…increasing productivity. How members are to evaluate the cost/benefit without proper communication is another issue.

The beauty is that Casey is building his own fraud case (digging his own grave, if you want), and we just have to sit back and relax. No way that the president of a charity can get away with spending charity funds on a beach in Thailand without a giving detailed account how that benefits the charity itself, no matter his ‘religion’.

Niels Smit “can they convince CS users that donation money?”
Yes . As their work is the truth and nothing but the truth (media blackout).It is their word against yours. And again the NVC is you lose as you have not proof (now that they have limited their communication). Remember a cult loves to channel communication (media blackouts) to suit their needs. Does David koresh ring a bell ?

Niels Smit “But I am not inclined to let them get away”
Then you will be considered a pirate . A party pooper who just wants to point fingers instead of getting off your lazy back side and flying down to the collective to help.

The bottom line in my view is extremely simple. Casey and pals are spending donation money at the collective. Notwithstanding the legal structure of CouchSurfing International inc., one could convincingly argue that it is ‘our’ money, and that Casey and pals have an obligation, if not legally then at least morally, to account for their expenditures.

If they can convince CS users that donation money is spent well, and is spent more efficiently than would have been the case without a Thai collective, they have my blessing. They can run around naked invoking Lucifer himself for all I care, as long as they deliver, and as long as their output is in accordance with the amount of money used to generate it.

Of course, we can all predict that this will not be the case. But I am not inclined to let them get away with answering far-fetched accusations regarding cult-hood, while the actual, rational matters underlying it remain unaddressed.

I forgot to add; if it can (but no worries, it won’t), the ‘leadership’ and their groupies can play cult as much as they want to as far as I’m concerned. I don’t mind under what esoteric circumstances my donation money is spent, as long as it is spent well and rationally.

Better wait and see what the collective will bring in the end, and whether it can withstand a cost-benefit analysis. My guess is that it cannot, but we’ll never be able to arrive at that conclusion since no real progress reports are being published anywhere.

@Daz
Do you mean “threesome” instead of “twosome”? Your post confuses me on many levels.