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	<title>Comments on: The trouble with CS finances</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/</link>
	<description>The campaign for a truly open CouchSurfing organisation</description>
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		<title>By: Couchsurfing VC capital disaster &#124; OpenCouchSurfing.org</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-360547</link>
		<dc:creator>Couchsurfing VC capital disaster &#124; OpenCouchSurfing.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2011 21:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-360547</guid>
		<description>[...] is where I say: told you so. I envy the person that will eventually write the history of how Couchsurfing came crashing down, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is where I say: told you so. I envy the person that will eventually write the history of how Couchsurfing came crashing down, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kasper Souren</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-797</link>
		<dc:creator>Kasper Souren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-797</guid>
		<description>Finally, the Q2 finances are out! Check http://www.couchsurfing.com/organization_finances_2007.html

I wonder why they were not visibly announced anywhere that I&#039;m aware of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, the Q2 finances are out! Check <a href="http://www.couchsurfing.com/organization_finances_2007.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.couchsurfing.com/organization_finances_2007.html</a></p>
<p>I wonder why they were not visibly announced anywhere that I&#8217;m aware of.</p>
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		<title>By: azarethroy</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-757</link>
		<dc:creator>azarethroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-757</guid>
		<description>Interesting analysis, Thomas. But I somewhat disagree on some points.

I&#039;ve always felt that members recognized the $25 verification fee as a donation. This was easier to justify when CS felt like a community, not a service. 

I suspect the model once CS reaches critical mass will be an advertising-based one or sponsored (ie. partnering with travel sites). There are also other revenue streams there have not been fully utilized (eg. Surf shop). As CS becomes more mainstream, I&#039;m sure these methods will be more accepted by the members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting analysis, Thomas. But I somewhat disagree on some points.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always felt that members recognized the $25 verification fee as a donation. This was easier to justify when CS felt like a community, not a service. </p>
<p>I suspect the model once CS reaches critical mass will be an advertising-based one or sponsored (ie. partnering with travel sites). There are also other revenue streams there have not been fully utilized (eg. Surf shop). As CS becomes more mainstream, I&#8217;m sure these methods will be more accepted by the members.</p>
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		<title>By: tgoorden</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-727</link>
		<dc:creator>tgoorden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-727</guid>
		<description>Interesting, CS has indeed put money aside during the second quarter of 2007, with in the comments: &quot;The goal of the fund is to provide for 3 months of operating expenses.&quot;

While this in itself is good news and definitely the kind of thinking-ahead that the organisation needs, it fails to address the broken business model though. When the time comes, it will only postpone financial troubles for a couple of months. But then, simply firing Jim and Matthew at that point should stretch that kind of money a lot further than 3 months.

So yes, a good thing indeed.

Perhaps it&#039;s not common for organisations to repay donations that have been made, but that&#039;s totally missing the point. If your (ex-)key volunteers start to ask for &quot;their money back&quot;, shouldn&#039;t that get you to thinking if your organisation is making the right choices? I know CS is not really willing to address (=solve!) any of these extremely serious issues within CS that so many people are raising, but this sort of hand-waving (&quot;we aren&#039;t doing anything wrong&quot;) is obviously not helping anyone.

So, anonymous amazing poster, I ask you this: Are you really sure you&#039;re on the right track?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, CS has indeed put money aside during the second quarter of 2007, with in the comments: &#8220;The goal of the fund is to provide for 3 months of operating expenses.&#8221;</p>
<p>While this in itself is good news and definitely the kind of thinking-ahead that the organisation needs, it fails to address the broken business model though. When the time comes, it will only postpone financial troubles for a couple of months. But then, simply firing Jim and Matthew at that point should stretch that kind of money a lot further than 3 months.</p>
<p>So yes, a good thing indeed.</p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s not common for organisations to repay donations that have been made, but that&#8217;s totally missing the point. If your (ex-)key volunteers start to ask for &#8220;their money back&#8221;, shouldn&#8217;t that get you to thinking if your organisation is making the right choices? I know CS is not really willing to address (=solve!) any of these extremely serious issues within CS that so many people are raising, but this sort of hand-waving (&#8220;we aren&#8217;t doing anything wrong&#8221;) is obviously not helping anyone.</p>
<p>So, anonymous amazing poster, I ask you this: Are you really sure you&#8217;re on the right track?</p>
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		<title>By: Anu</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-726</link>
		<dc:creator>Anu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-726</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but after a year of free labour and a call to hire coders just AFTER everyone critical involved was finally off the team I damn well feel entitled to get my money back. Financial information has been ready for weeks, yet not published. We have heard of 501c3 for a full year yet there is no tangible information on any progress whatsoever (newxt month, practically tomorrow, time and time again). A matter of principle, if nothing else - and hopefully a wakeup call for the leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but after a year of free labour and a call to hire coders just AFTER everyone critical involved was finally off the team I damn well feel entitled to get my money back. Financial information has been ready for weeks, yet not published. We have heard of 501c3 for a full year yet there is no tangible information on any progress whatsoever (newxt month, practically tomorrow, time and time again). A matter of principle, if nothing else &#8211; and hopefully a wakeup call for the leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 08:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-721</guid>
		<description>Well, i think it&#039;s better to use YOUR money to buy your real friends some drinks, and enjoy together, rather than having some other people enjoying their drinks bought with YOUR money without your presence! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, i think it&#8217;s better to use YOUR money to buy your real friends some drinks, and enjoy together, rather than having some other people enjoying their drinks bought with YOUR money without your presence! <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: amazed</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>amazed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-717</guid>
		<description>You might want to check your facts before quoting that CS has no financial reserves.  The financial pages pretty clearly spells it out.

Also, is there any other organization where you can donate funds and then ask for them whenever you feel like it because you&#039;d suddenly &quot;rather use it for my personal benefit&quot;?  That seems like a reckless way for any organization that relies solely on member contributions to operate but good for you, I guess, for taking your money back (years later, even!) to buy people drinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might want to check your facts before quoting that CS has no financial reserves.  The financial pages pretty clearly spells it out.</p>
<p>Also, is there any other organization where you can donate funds and then ask for them whenever you feel like it because you&#8217;d suddenly &#8220;rather use it for my personal benefit&#8221;?  That seems like a reckless way for any organization that relies solely on member contributions to operate but good for you, I guess, for taking your money back (years later, even!) to buy people drinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Anu</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-698</link>
		<dc:creator>Anu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-698</guid>
		<description>My inquiry for refund was responded to promptly, and besides the &quot;coming soon&quot; statement for finances (which have been ready, just not put up on site, for weeks now) I&#039;m happy to let you know I will get my money back :)   (I chose to maintain my verified status, only asking back the surplus I donated over the 25€ Euro-verification)

Anyone up for a drink, my treat? (well if you happen to be around Italy-Austria-Switzerland) :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My inquiry for refund was responded to promptly, and besides the &#8220;coming soon&#8221; statement for finances (which have been ready, just not put up on site, for weeks now) I&#8217;m happy to let you know I will get my money back <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    (I chose to maintain my verified status, only asking back the surplus I donated over the 25€ Euro-verification)</p>
<p>Anyone up for a drink, my treat? (well if you happen to be around Italy-Austria-Switzerland) <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Callum</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>Callum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-694</guid>
		<description>Personally, I doubt CouchSurfing will get 501c3 status any time soon. Casey said it was &quot;practically tomorrow&quot; [sic] over 4 months ago and there&#039;s no progress as yet. I think when the financial crash hits, somebody will have the bright idea that they could sell CouchSurfing to a commercial travel web site. Without 501c3 status in place, it&#039;ll be a piece of cake and the inner circle will most likely pocket a nice wedge of cash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I doubt CouchSurfing will get 501c3 status any time soon. Casey said it was &#8220;practically tomorrow&#8221; [sic] over 4 months ago and there&#8217;s no progress as yet. I think when the financial crash hits, somebody will have the bright idea that they could sell CouchSurfing to a commercial travel web site. Without 501c3 status in place, it&#8217;ll be a piece of cake and the inner circle will most likely pocket a nice wedge of cash.</p>
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		<title>By: morgo</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-686</link>
		<dc:creator>morgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-686</guid>
		<description>I think it will slow down, it won&#039;t disappear.

Couchsurfing can charge to re-verify you if you change address (most people only live in a place a few years), and there&#039;s a whole bunch of people that will loose their account and create a new one later, or young people only getting into travel.

From what the finances reveal, there are absolutely no savings.  I once pondered what the effects of a system failure would be (can&#039;t get verifications if there&#039;s a failure).

In the case of the last crash, it lead to increased awareness and donations.  I&#039;m not sure it will be the same every time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it will slow down, it won&#8217;t disappear.</p>
<p>Couchsurfing can charge to re-verify you if you change address (most people only live in a place a few years), and there&#8217;s a whole bunch of people that will loose their account and create a new one later, or young people only getting into travel.</p>
<p>From what the finances reveal, there are absolutely no savings.  I once pondered what the effects of a system failure would be (can&#8217;t get verifications if there&#8217;s a failure).</p>
<p>In the case of the last crash, it lead to increased awareness and donations.  I&#8217;m not sure it will be the same every time.</p>
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		<title>By: Anu</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-676</link>
		<dc:creator>Anu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-676</guid>
		<description>&quot;due to still pending financial reports for the second quarter of 2007, I no longer feel comfortable donating to CS.

I am kindly asking if it would be possible to get refunded for the amount I donated up until now that exceeds the 25€ I paid for verification through the European bank system.

At the time of donation the amount was not a big deal for me, however now I would rather use it for my personal benefit.&quot;

Sent to: http://www.couchsurfing.com/contact.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;due to still pending financial reports for the second quarter of 2007, I no longer feel comfortable donating to CS.</p>
<p>I am kindly asking if it would be possible to get refunded for the amount I donated up until now that exceeds the 25€ I paid for verification through the European bank system.</p>
<p>At the time of donation the amount was not a big deal for me, however now I would rather use it for my personal benefit.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sent to: <a href="http://www.couchsurfing.com/contact.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.couchsurfing.com/contact.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anu</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/comment-page-1/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>Anu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/22/the-trouble-with-cs-finances/#comment-675</guid>
		<description>There were some alternate revenue methods thought of / in the making a few months back, but I don&#039;t feel it&#039;s not my place to reveal them, or speculate what&#039;s the current state of these plans.

Also, you might want to take a look into Triple&#039;s replies to some of the recent Brainstorm threads and assess their viability.

In the meanwhile, I&#039;m wondering if it would be possible to get back the money I donated on top of my verification fee... I&#039;d rather use it to sustain my own life and travels than keep fattening someone else&#039;s account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were some alternate revenue methods thought of / in the making a few months back, but I don&#8217;t feel it&#8217;s not my place to reveal them, or speculate what&#8217;s the current state of these plans.</p>
<p>Also, you might want to take a look into Triple&#8217;s replies to some of the recent Brainstorm threads and assess their viability.</p>
<p>In the meanwhile, I&#8217;m wondering if it would be possible to get back the money I donated on top of my verification fee&#8230; I&#8217;d rather use it to sustain my own life and travels than keep fattening someone else&#8217;s account.</p>
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