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	<title>Comments on: Rewriting history &#8211; Replacing &#8220;us vs. them&#8221; with &#8220;those, who hate CS&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/</link>
	<description>The campaign for a truly open CouchSurfing organisation</description>
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		<title>By: azarethroy</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-758</link>
		<dc:creator>azarethroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-758</guid>
		<description>Great post, midsch. I too was very impressed by Kasper&#039;s strength in character by removing those negative references for others.

I agree with Valeri that CS has chosen it&#039;s path. It has enough momentum to continue with its present strategy and I don&#039;t see any turning back, unless there is another major crisis.

I just don&#039;t understand why some newbie members are on CS brainstorm group &quot;championing&quot; for an open CS. They have yet to invest that much energy in the project - so isn&#039;t easier to start afresh with BeWelcome? I find those posts are actually counter-productive; bystanders end up becoming numb to the &quot;usual suspects&quot; and may start to believe the label &quot;CS-haters&quot;.

Anyway CS seemed like a great community project in the beginning - now, as a service it&#039;s not as special. Maybe I just need a break from HC/CS/BW for a few months. Or maybe I&#039;ve just found Facebook more fun now... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, midsch. I too was very impressed by Kasper&#8217;s strength in character by removing those negative references for others.</p>
<p>I agree with Valeri that CS has chosen it&#8217;s path. It has enough momentum to continue with its present strategy and I don&#8217;t see any turning back, unless there is another major crisis.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t understand why some newbie members are on CS brainstorm group &#8220;championing&#8221; for an open CS. They have yet to invest that much energy in the project &#8211; so isn&#8217;t easier to start afresh with BeWelcome? I find those posts are actually counter-productive; bystanders end up becoming numb to the &#8220;usual suspects&#8221; and may start to believe the label &#8220;CS-haters&#8221;.</p>
<p>Anyway CS seemed like a great community project in the beginning &#8211; now, as a service it&#8217;s not as special. Maybe I just need a break from HC/CS/BW for a few months. Or maybe I&#8217;ve just found Facebook more fun now&#8230; <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Callum</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>Callum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-695</guid>
		<description>I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, I&#039;ve seen it a few times. If you feel yourself giving up on CouchSurfing and thinking to move on, I&#039;d recommend watching the film, it might just inspire you.

That, and of course, &lt;a href=&quot;http://highscalability.com/google-architecture&quot; title=&quot;Braveheart on IMDB.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Braveheart&lt;/a&gt;! Nothing inspires me to fight for freedom quite like watching Braveheart! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, I&#8217;ve seen it a few times. If you feel yourself giving up on CouchSurfing and thinking to move on, I&#8217;d recommend watching the film, it might just inspire you.</p>
<p>That, and of course, <a href="http://highscalability.com/google-architecture" title="Braveheart on IMDB.com" rel="nofollow">Braveheart</a>! Nothing inspires me to fight for freedom quite like watching Braveheart! <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: tgoorden</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-685</link>
		<dc:creator>tgoorden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-685</guid>
		<description>@Midsch: I think Jared meant the movie &quot;V for Vendetta&quot;, which is a comic book as well. Since it most definitely is about violent resistence and indeed revenge, it might be a little bit of an overblown analogy though ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Midsch: I think Jared meant the movie &#8220;V for Vendetta&#8221;, which is a comic book as well. Since it most definitely is about violent resistence and indeed revenge, it might be a little bit of an overblown analogy though <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: midsch</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-679</link>
		<dc:creator>midsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-679</guid>
		<description>@Jared: Could you please explain, why the post reminds you of Vendetta? I&#039;m just curious because that&#039;s definetly not my intention. I just tried to describe my view of things and claimed the right to do so, especially because the &quot;official&quot; view of CS corp. is completely different.

Vendetta - Revenge? What for? Hmm, most people here are far beyond that, nomore believing in any positive change at CS. 

Right now I see OpenCS as a place to (re-)connect and learn from a shared experience. This may result in collaborations in new/other projects. 

Getting in the warm again - sounds great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jared: Could you please explain, why the post reminds you of Vendetta? I&#8217;m just curious because that&#8217;s definetly not my intention. I just tried to describe my view of things and claimed the right to do so, especially because the &#8220;official&#8221; view of CS corp. is completely different.</p>
<p>Vendetta &#8211; Revenge? What for? Hmm, most people here are far beyond that, nomore believing in any positive change at CS. </p>
<p>Right now I see OpenCS as a place to (re-)connect and learn from a shared experience. This may result in collaborations in new/other projects. </p>
<p>Getting in the warm again &#8211; sounds great.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-669</guid>
		<description>Hmmmmm. This post reminds me of V for Vendetta...I donno. for some strange reason.

But hey: proof that web2.0 is what we make of it.  It can be both a liberating to for many or another tool to crush dissent and keep the few in power.

Thought: I remember people attacking me a while back saying CS is nothing more than about surfing couches.  In short, that CS is apolitical.  Well, to me, this is proof that everything is political - especially things that seem like they aren&#039;t.  But what kind of politics will you have?

I love this quote:
&quot;Kuyabanda phezulu; kushushu ezontsi&quot; - Xhosa Proverb translating as &quot;Its cold up there; its warm down here&quot;. 

I, for one, don&#039;t like being cold.  I&#039;ll try to stay warm down here with the &#039;other&#039;.  My goal: not only to work for their liberation but to liberate myself as well.

Anu: Does this mean you are going to write a book about &#039;the cold&#039; up there near to the LT?  I&#039;d read it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmmm. This post reminds me of V for Vendetta&#8230;I donno. for some strange reason.</p>
<p>But hey: proof that web2.0 is what we make of it.  It can be both a liberating to for many or another tool to crush dissent and keep the few in power.</p>
<p>Thought: I remember people attacking me a while back saying CS is nothing more than about surfing couches.  In short, that CS is apolitical.  Well, to me, this is proof that everything is political &#8211; especially things that seem like they aren&#8217;t.  But what kind of politics will you have?</p>
<p>I love this quote:<br />
&#8220;Kuyabanda phezulu; kushushu ezontsi&#8221; &#8211; Xhosa Proverb translating as &#8220;Its cold up there; its warm down here&#8221;. </p>
<p>I, for one, don&#8217;t like being cold.  I&#8217;ll try to stay warm down here with the &#8216;other&#8217;.  My goal: not only to work for their liberation but to liberate myself as well.</p>
<p>Anu: Does this mean you are going to write a book about &#8216;the cold&#8217; up there near to the LT?  I&#8217;d read it <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Anu</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator>Anu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-668</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

thanks for all the nice things said here and elsewhere (Finns easily blush when being praised etc so *blush* :). Despite appearances, I&#039;m not horribly sad or angry (anymore) - just am finally taking the steps to truly let go and move on (and frankly also a bit worn out of all the traveling in the past 3 months - it was good to put faces on the text though ;)

There was a time when all I needed was a simple apology, and admitting of SOME mishandling of the situation (back in Nelson) at least, but that didn&#039;t happen (I asked for it in oh-so-many words, listened very carefully for any sincere attempt to say these things but didn&#039;t get it). So anything that may or most likely may not be said right now doesn&#039;t really matter anymore - too little too late, and at least &quot;they&quot; don&#039;t have to wonder my reasons for not being happy-go-lucky volunteer for CS anymore. (although I would still be curious to hear the REAL reasons for certain nominations, the confusing argumentation for it just isn&#039;t enough for me)

Even though some people advised me to &quot;not cause trouble&quot; upon my departure, I feel it&#039;s in best for someone at least to be open about things I personally found bothering, so that people sharing values similar to mine at least have a chance to be informed of what they&#039;re getting themselves into, to be able to make their own conclusions and choices.

I fully intend to write up the part of CS history I was personally involved with, as this will serve both as a personal closure for the situation and a lesson learned for any of my (our?) future engagements. Anyone care to help?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>thanks for all the nice things said here and elsewhere (Finns easily blush when being praised etc so *blush* <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> . Despite appearances, I&#8217;m not horribly sad or angry (anymore) &#8211; just am finally taking the steps to truly let go and move on (and frankly also a bit worn out of all the traveling in the past 3 months &#8211; it was good to put faces on the text though <img src='http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>There was a time when all I needed was a simple apology, and admitting of SOME mishandling of the situation (back in Nelson) at least, but that didn&#8217;t happen (I asked for it in oh-so-many words, listened very carefully for any sincere attempt to say these things but didn&#8217;t get it). So anything that may or most likely may not be said right now doesn&#8217;t really matter anymore &#8211; too little too late, and at least &#8220;they&#8221; don&#8217;t have to wonder my reasons for not being happy-go-lucky volunteer for CS anymore. (although I would still be curious to hear the REAL reasons for certain nominations, the confusing argumentation for it just isn&#8217;t enough for me)</p>
<p>Even though some people advised me to &#8220;not cause trouble&#8221; upon my departure, I feel it&#8217;s in best for someone at least to be open about things I personally found bothering, so that people sharing values similar to mine at least have a chance to be informed of what they&#8217;re getting themselves into, to be able to make their own conclusions and choices.</p>
<p>I fully intend to write up the part of CS history I was personally involved with, as this will serve both as a personal closure for the situation and a lesson learned for any of my (our?) future engagements. Anyone care to help?</p>
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		<title>By: Valeri</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-667</link>
		<dc:creator>Valeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-667</guid>
		<description>Yes, i was struck by that quote too, Torsten. Deep insight there, full-on reality!!  Midsch, excellent post. 

Probably some of you have seen i am posting like crazy lately on Brainstorm - that&#039;s because i&#039;m about to withdraw from CS and work primarily on a global nonprofit whose aim is to benefit the world, and not at all through hospitality networks (yes, *shock* hospitality isn&#039;t everything). 

so to answer your implicit request for &#039;what should the strategy be now?&#039; - personally i am going mostly into observer mode. CS has chosen a path, if they don&#039;t correct it at least enough to apologize to Anu - and hopefully issue an explicit apology to those volunteers who worked hard and then were marginalized - then, well, i would guess we will be observing repetitive problems. To me, an apology would go a long way, but then i was not one of the injured parties. 

I think the best people can do is ... be neutral (non-emotional) and fair in postings. Hold the Leaders accountable to the values they&#039;ve written down and are claiming.  I care about the network and I&#039;ll make the obvious suggestion or two if no one else does. Bottomline - always behave with integrity and truth, practive clear communication, learn the lessons (I have learned so much about pitfalls of human nature in organizations... not fun but useful!) and apply them to what we go on to do. 

It may be that CS Leaders&#039; lack of integrity will turn out to have beneficial effects in releasing everyone to work on positive projects -  now with far better knowledge of how to work together and what makes an organization really work. For me, that includes NOT damaging the people working with you.  In what i&#039;m going off to do, having the org be beneficial for all individuals is a priority - and CS has confirmed to me how important that is. 

Aside from that.. how about if we begin sharing our knowledge and insights on some additional topics where our expertise can benefit each other?

all the best and hugs,
Valerie
Valerie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, i was struck by that quote too, Torsten. Deep insight there, full-on reality!!  Midsch, excellent post. </p>
<p>Probably some of you have seen i am posting like crazy lately on Brainstorm &#8211; that&#8217;s because i&#8217;m about to withdraw from CS and work primarily on a global nonprofit whose aim is to benefit the world, and not at all through hospitality networks (yes, *shock* hospitality isn&#8217;t everything). </p>
<p>so to answer your implicit request for &#8216;what should the strategy be now?&#8217; &#8211; personally i am going mostly into observer mode. CS has chosen a path, if they don&#8217;t correct it at least enough to apologize to Anu &#8211; and hopefully issue an explicit apology to those volunteers who worked hard and then were marginalized &#8211; then, well, i would guess we will be observing repetitive problems. To me, an apology would go a long way, but then i was not one of the injured parties. </p>
<p>I think the best people can do is &#8230; be neutral (non-emotional) and fair in postings. Hold the Leaders accountable to the values they&#8217;ve written down and are claiming.  I care about the network and I&#8217;ll make the obvious suggestion or two if no one else does. Bottomline &#8211; always behave with integrity and truth, practive clear communication, learn the lessons (I have learned so much about pitfalls of human nature in organizations&#8230; not fun but useful!) and apply them to what we go on to do. </p>
<p>It may be that CS Leaders&#8217; lack of integrity will turn out to have beneficial effects in releasing everyone to work on positive projects &#8211;  now with far better knowledge of how to work together and what makes an organization really work. For me, that includes NOT damaging the people working with you.  In what i&#8217;m going off to do, having the org be beneficial for all individuals is a priority &#8211; and CS has confirmed to me how important that is. </p>
<p>Aside from that.. how about if we begin sharing our knowledge and insights on some additional topics where our expertise can benefit each other?</p>
<p>all the best and hugs,<br />
Valerie<br />
Valerie</p>
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		<title>By: Torsten</title>
		<link>http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/comment-page-1/#comment-662</link>
		<dc:creator>Torsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/08/21/rewriting-history-replacing-us-vs-them-with-those-who-hate-cs/#comment-662</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nonviolent communication is not a good concept for people who don’t understand (or don’t want to understand) that non-communication is probably one of the most violent forms of communication at all.&quot; - Mmh... very interesting thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nonviolent communication is not a good concept for people who don’t understand (or don’t want to understand) that non-communication is probably one of the most violent forms of communication at all.&#8221; &#8211; Mmh&#8230; very interesting thought.</p>
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